What you can expect if you're going to run for a bad D3 school.

You are not a superior human being to everyone else on the team just because you are fast. If you are actually this much of an ass in real life I suggest you transfer for the your own sake and for the sake of your teammates.

"A banged up 9 foot pole vaulter will milk that vague shoulder injury..."

Whoa! Your pole vaulter is 9 feet tall? That is incredible! How do they fling themselves through the air?

Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8057306#ixzz4YX4mLmuf

---

FitzyXC wrote:

You are not a superior human being to everyone else on the team just because you are fast. If you are actually this much of an ass in real life I suggest you transfer for the your own sake and for the sake of your teammates.

---

You know what you never really see in D3? One really great runner on a team that is otherwise a bunch of 30:00 and worse 8k guys like what you describe. The teams who have six guys over 30:00 on their regional team have at best a top runner around 28:30. OP is probably "good" only in comparison to the "dance circle" clowns who are trying "athlete" out for their personality type.

---

Mikeh wrote:

"A banged up 9 foot pole vaulter will milk that vague shoulder injury..."

Whoa! Your pole vaulter is 9 feet tall? That is incredible! How do they fling themselves through the air?

Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8057306#ixzz4YX4mLmuf

---

---

The Realist wrote:

This is for high schoolers who are in a situation I was in once. Good academic college, they have a bad team, but you're good. I'm not trying to dissuade you from running there, as this hasn't stopped me from competing, but I want to give you a heads up on what some of your teammates (distance and non-distance) will be like.

1. They will be in the sport for the structured social interaction. They want to be a cool sports kid with cool sports friends. Expect socially awkward kids who want to be known by others as track athletes, though you'd never know it if you saw their marks. They will want to have fun team activities like Disney movies and special cheers. They are searching for an identity that they think others will like. They're currently trying "athlete". It doesn't fit them well.

2. They will half-commit. Lacking performance motivation, they will scrape through practices, eat like crap afterwards, etc. They will not improve, they will simply persist.

3. They will never run out of excuses. Sick once 4 weeks ago? That's enough to excuse their 5:20 1500s all season. Sore hamstring? They'll be in the trainers' room everyday to ice it for 10 minutes, skip a track meet (they'll come and eat the free food though) and run 26sec 200s the rest of the year (the best they can do). A banged up 9 foot pole vaulter will milk that vague shoulder injury every meet for an entire season.

4. They will fear races. Lacking competitive drive and preparedness (see parts 2 and 3), they shy away from the actual point of the sport. Everyone might see that they truly have no business running "competitively".

5. If they outnumber true athletes, you will be seen as the mean jocks. The TRUE team is the dance circle that always cheers for everyone on the team even if it interferes with their warmup.

6. They will force their personalities on you. They are there because of an unmet need for validation that 1) most weird kids don't have and 2) isn't fulfilled by actual track stuff (because they suck).

My advice for you going into this situation is:
1. Examine all options, including D2 and D1.
2. NEVER worry about team placement.
3. Don't stick to the track team for friends. Make other friends not in track.
4. Look out for Numero Uno. Never take into account what crappy runners think of your training, attitude towards the team, lack of enthusiasm for other runners, etc. You don't have to please them or concede to them EVER. Do you.

---

I'm sure there are some crappy DIII schools out there but the OP simply made a bad choice. There are some highly competitive D3 conferences in the Midwest, East Coast, and Cali with top notch academics. Yeah there may be a few sloths and socially awkward kids on the team but they usually purge themselves after a year or so of getting massacred in competition. Kudos to the ones who do stick around and improve. Much of the issues mentioned by the original poster seem to stem from a lack of leadership from the coach and upperclassmen:

Sorry to hear nobody liked you at college. Maybe you will have better luck when you become an adult.

---

The Realist wrote:

This is for high schoolers who are in a situation I was in once. Good academic college, they have a bad team, but you're good. I'm not trying to dissuade you from running there, as this hasn't stopped me from competing, but I want to give you a heads up on what some of your teammates (distance and non-distance) will be like.

1. They will be in the sport for the structured social interaction. They want to be a cool sports kid with cool sports friends. Expect socially awkward kids who want to be known by others as track athletes, though you'd never know it if you saw their marks. They will want to have fun team activities like Disney movies and special cheers. They are searching for an identity that they think others will like. They're currently trying "athlete". It doesn't fit them well.

2. They will half-commit. Lacking performance motivation, they will scrape through practices, eat like crap afterwards, etc. They will not improve, they will simply persist.

3. They will never run out of excuses. Sick once 4 weeks ago? That's enough to excuse their 5:20 1500s all season. Sore hamstring? They'll be in the trainers' room everyday to ice it for 10 minutes, skip a track meet (they'll come and eat the free food though) and run 26sec 200s the rest of the year (the best they can do). A banged up 9 foot pole vaulter will milk that vague shoulder injury every meet for an entire season.

4. They will fear races. Lacking competitive drive and preparedness (see parts 2 and 3), they shy away from the actual point of the sport. Everyone might see that they truly have no business running "competitively".

5. If they outnumber true athletes, you will be seen as the mean jocks. The TRUE team is the dance circle that always cheers for everyone on the team even if it interferes with their warmup.

6. They will force their personalities on you. They are there because of an unmet need for validation that 1) most weird kids don't have and 2) isn't fulfilled by actual track stuff (because they suck).

My advice for you going into this situation is:
1. Examine all options, including D2 and D1.
2. NEVER worry about team placement.
3. Don't stick to the track team for friends. Make other friends not in track.
4. Look out for Numero Uno. Never take into account what crappy runners think of your training, attitude towards the team, lack of enthusiasm for other runners, etc. You don't have to please them or concede to them EVER. Do you.

---

OP must be feeling confident because they just broke 5 in the mile...

---

gahuga wrote:

You know what you never really see in D3? One really great runner on a team that is otherwise a bunch of 30:00 and worse 8k guys like what you describe. The teams who have six guys over 30:00 on their regional team have at best a top runner around 28:30. OP is probably "good" only in comparison to the "dance circle" clowns who are trying "athlete" out for their personality type.

---

I served as an assistant coach on a D3 team for two years. First year, they had two guys in the 25's and the rest were 28 and above. Second year, they had one guy in the 25's and the rest above 28. So yeah, it does occur where you can have a really good runner and more average ones behind him.

The head coach was never a distance runner and really knew very little about coaching it. He had some goofy workouts although I imagine he was kind of hamstrung when 90% of the team didn't really train over the summer. I tried to help him but he wanted to run the show. Only the top guys would train over the summer. I used to send out a monthly newsletter over the summer to motivate (plea/beg) them to train.

The greek system was huge for the undergrad so you did get some socially awkward distance runners but distance running tends to attract those types. But I tell you, they were a great bunch of guys. We used to spend Tuesdays in the pool playing water polo until it became apparent that it was one of the hardest workouts (Tuesday was supposed to be an easy day.) But damn, it was fun!

Anyhow, the truly great runners make those around them better. If you are in such a situation, instead of complaining about it, figure out how you can make the other runners better.

Disney movies? I think we ran for different programs. I ran DIII and had a blast. I lived in a team house with a bunch of runners, piles of shoes and a kegerator that was always on. There were beers on the course after meets (cool downs), beers in the van on the ride home and beers back at the team house. We threw big parties after every meet - we sold cups and sometimes made enough to cover the rent, after fixing the damage to the house and paying off the tickets. Sunday mornings we’d drag ourselves out into the country for a hungover long run to cook off all that beer and start another week of training. Maybe I could have run a little faster at one of the crap D1 teams we sometimes raced – and sometimes beat – but I suspect I would have had a lot less fun and I still would have sucked. In any case, the only overuse injury I suffered was a minor STD. Except for not taking pass on that chick, I have no regrets about my DIII days.

I don't see what's wrong with The Realist's post. Some people have taken it as as an insult and responded emotionally, but the post itself was matter-of-fact.

I ran D3 and as other said, its about what you make of it / creating a culture.It can be what the OP descriped, BUT it can also be world's better than that even from a non-traditional powerhouse school

In HS I was nothing special, a garden variety 4:35/10:00 guy on the track. Sure I could have raced for a D2 or shitty D1 school, but I wanted to go to a good school where I could run and fit in well with the team.

The year before I arrived, the team had two 27:00 guys and two 27:30 guys and then like 4ish 28:00-30:00 and even a couple 32:00 xc guys. They had a good culture, though.

Yea, there were a lot of shenanigans, of course, but along with the fastest upperclassmen, myself, another freshman from my year, and a guy who came when i was a sophomore. The culture changed (also a new assistant coach got there right before my freshman year who was solid)

We still had all the fun with everyone on the team, but the best 4-5 guys all started running 80-90 mile weeks (after reading Once A Runner) and having 4 of branch out into different events and run in the 1:51ish , 3:50ish, 14:40s, and Lower 9s for steeple and and eventually a 2nd at D3 indoors DMR.

With those teams we still had fun with the 28:30-30:00 8k xc guys. (Even the slower ones improved, and were some of the most liked guys on the team cause they were flat out good folks)

So yea, to sort of counter the OP it's all what you make of it at D3. But if you create a good culture and make it 'cool' to train hard then the others follow. And even if they aren't talented to be fast, dont look down on the slower dudes cause they could be some of the nicest people on the team.

All I can say is, either bloom where you're planted (smash records like crazy, be the best runner to ever wear the uniform), or transfer to a better program. You must have been one of those rare talents who slipped through the cracks and wasn't seen by the better recruiters. Good luck, have fun.

Do you have a fetish for D3 runnergirls?

From experience, I think this is pretty accurate.

Except for this piece... They love to race. Even if its 32 min. 8k's They're not embarrassed about being slow and don't care about their position in the back of the pack. Did they run good or bad? Doesn't matter, they were there RACING!

---

The Realist wrote:

4. They will fear races. Lacking competitive drive and preparedness (see parts 2 and 3), they shy away from the actual point of the sport. Everyone might see that they truly have no business running "competitively".

---

---

The Realist wrote:

This is for high schoolers who are in a situation I was in once. Good academic college, they have a bad team, but you're good. I'm not trying to dissuade you from running there, as this hasn't stopped me from competing, but I want to give you a heads up on what some of your teammates (distance and non-distance) will be like.

1. They will be in the sport for the structured social interaction. They want to be a cool sports kid with cool sports friends. Expect socially awkward kids who want to be known by others as track athletes, though you'd never know it if you saw their marks. They will want to have fun team activities like Disney movies and special cheers. They are searching for an identity that they think others will like. They're currently trying "athlete". It doesn't fit them well.

2. They will half-commit. Lacking performance motivation, they will scrape through practices, eat like crap afterwards, etc. They will not improve, they will simply persist.

3. They will never run out of excuses. Sick once 4 weeks ago? That's enough to excuse their 5:20 1500s all season. Sore hamstring? They'll be in the trainers' room everyday to ice it for 10 minutes, skip a track meet (they'll come and eat the free food though) and run 26sec 200s the rest of the year (the best they can do). A banged up 9 foot pole vaulter will milk that vague shoulder injury every meet for an entire season.

4. They will fear races. Lacking competitive drive and preparedness (see parts 2 and 3), they shy away from the actual point of the sport. Everyone might see that they truly have no business running "competitively".

5. If they outnumber true athletes, you will be seen as the mean jocks. The TRUE team is the dance circle that always cheers for everyone on the team even if it interferes with their warmup.

6. They will force their personalities on you. They are there because of an unmet need for validation that 1) most weird kids don't have and 2) isn't fulfilled by actual track stuff (because they suck).

My advice for you going into this situation is:
1. Examine all options, including D2 and D1.
2. NEVER worry about team placement.
3. Don't stick to the track team for friends. Make other friends not in track.
4. Look out for Numero Uno. Never take into account what crappy runners think of your training, attitude towards the team, lack of enthusiasm for other runners, etc. You don't have to please them or concede to them EVER. Do you.

---