Build a sub 2:12 American Marathoner.

Leaving aside training, I would probably want:

age: 23-26

height: 5-6 to 5-10

weight: 120 to 135

background: 4-5 years of 80+ miles, and sub 13:50/28:20 qualifications.

For training, I would probably try to emulate America as little as possible, since we suck at turning out 2:12 marathoners, and emulate a country like Japan that's deep, specifically in the marathon. Kenyans might not be a good model because they're good at everything, whereas Japan is very deep in 10K and up, and might be a more useful model.

I think you could build a sub 2:12 marathoner out of those components within a few years. I'm trying to make it somewhat realistic as well, obviously it would be a lot easier to do if I started out with a 27:30 10K guy with lots of experience.

I got one to add also. How about being born and raised at altitude.

No one wants to touch the training side, of course, ha.

This individual mus have the proper genetic make up. W/O that, all the hard work in the world will not get the average joe to 2:12.

There are 3 on the production line right now.Jorge Torres,Louie Luchini,and Tom McCardle.Also Sage,Robison,and Ritz.In the next 5 or 6 years we are going to have quite a few.

John Walker's hair

Pre's charisma

Deek's legs

Beardsley's guts

Khannouchi's engine

Mayeroff's very small noodle (no need for excess baggage)

heh heh heh.

Hey, Paddy, how about Teddy Mitchell's baton twirling abilities.......NAH!

How about BILL RODGERS, Frank Shorter, Jerry Lawson, Jeff Wells, Garry Bjorklund, Al Sal, Dick Beardsley, Tony Sandoval, Pete Pfitz, Greg Meyer, Bob Hodgie-san, Ron Tabb, Benji Durden. Go ask those guys, very easy.

I would go ask BR what he did, check him out ok?

OK so we just walk up to Bill Rodgers and say what did you do? and he just tells us everything and we go out and do it? That seems simple enough. Where should I fly to? Yeah right.

Bill Rodgers has at least run 9-10 times faster then 2:12. I would say he is your perfect model to build a sub 2:12 USA marathoner from. Then again check out what Nike is doing below in the same quest.

1. Go to Eldoret or Addis with INS agents and immigration attorneys

2. Find fast guys who want a better life in the States and a green card

3. Get the paperwork started

4. Sign the recruits up for USATF memberships

There you have it. An easy and quick way to fix our marathon issues AND perpetuate the promise of the American Dream for Third World peoples.

Miles and Miles wrote:

OK so we just walk up to Bill Rodgers and say what did you do? and he just tells us everything and we go out and do it? That seems simple enough. Where should I fly to? Yeah right.

BR has an autobiography. Not exactly Shakespeare, but plenty of info about how he trained, his background etc.

As far as how to build a 2:12 marathoner, take a sub 3:45 1500m runner, train 100-140mi per week for years, making sure you do the basics (marathon pace runs, mile/2mi repeats around 10K pace, 400m repeats around 5K race pace, hill repeats) and whammo! you've got your 2:12. Or just go to

and check out how Rod DeHaven built himself.

Wow, think of what the Hansens could create with "$35,000 of Russian software".

Take Bob Kennedy...and make him run the 'thon.

Read Running With Legends. Rogers, Shorter, et al give enough details.

And in my mind, screw that altitude shit and train where you are most comfortable.

And Miles and Miles, hope you do well in Kentucky!

I am reading that book right now. But it only has one page tops on everyone's training. Not exactly in depth. It says like their mileage and 1 example workout, not too much insight there. If I am going to use someone's workout I need to know things about it, like recoveries, and where it fit into their schedule.

Oh and I don't plan on moving to altitude anytime soon, it was just part of the opitimal 2:12 runner.

Miles and Miles,

The thing I got out of running with Legends is they were all very consistent, had a large base (maybe Steve Jones was an exception), and they all ran hard on their hard days (Rogers says easy quality worked for him; Shorter took it out hard on every rep).

But the biggest thing was everyone of them ran easy/slow as shit on recovery days. That to me may have made them great.

They also didn't give a shit about what other people were doing. They simply fiqured out what worked for them and trained accordingly.

Keep rocking!

Race yourself into 2:12 shape like the college dropout, Dick Beardlsey...

Olympic Trials Summer '80 2:16:00

Nike/OTC Marathon Sept.'80 2:15:00

New York Marathon Nov. '80 2:13:00

Houston Marathon Jan. '81 2:12:48

Beppu Marathon Feb. '81 2:12:41

London Marathon Apr. '81 2:11:48

Grandma's Marathon June '81 2:09:37

Houston Marathon Jan. '82 2:12:00

Boston Marathon Apr. '82 2:08:54

I believe he is 24 to 26 years old from '80-'82

I am going to go back and look, but it didn't look like they were running that easy on their easy days. I would say most of them were running 6 min pace. Going to have to check when I get home. I know they all worked their asses off and that's what everyone needs to do to run better rather than sit around and figuring out what they need to do. Get out there and do it and work hard.

We already have the optimal American marathon runner, KK. Here's all i can put together on him. Info mostly from runners world online and Running Tough. Runs between 90-125 mpw. early in build up probably does very short recoveries during workouts (30 sec) latter as goal race approaches recoveries increase but no report of over 1 min (i think realistically more like 90 sec - 2min but not much, main thing to increase volume of intervals). does 16 - 25x400 in approx 62. does a 5 mile fartlek on the track. does up to 12x1000 in 2:42 does 6x2000 in 5:30-5:35 when close to goal race. gets in 9-10 long fast runs during his build up starts off w/3 mi warm up then increases to mp. runs last 2 miles on track in 4:20-4:30. long runs are 18-22. long fast runs make him more nervous than races. he often stays up late the night before worrying about them and may need to be assisted off the track when they're over. says for runners trying to improve to use 5 long runs to build up. start off running last 1 mile at mp, then 2 miles etc, up to last 5 miles. reading running tough 10x1000 in 2:42 is clearly a bread and butter workout for an international runner. Also have notes on one of those 40 year olds whose always winning twin cities. anyway i think current record is about 2:10:30 and guy who did it ran 85-105 and had ability to run 10x1000 in 2:48.