Only the best!
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agip wrote:
So who lied more about his past:
Santos or Trump?
Santos lied about more fundamental stuff, but Trump made up for it in volume.
"So who lied more about his past":
Joe Biden is the clear cut winner on this ...
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agip wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
"So who lied more about his past":
Joe Biden is the clear cut winner on this ...
Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years
Trump averaged about six claims a day in his first year as president, 16 claims day in his second year, 22 claims day in this third year — and 39 claims a day in his final year. Put another way, it took him 27 months to reach 10,000 claims and an additional 14 months to reach 20,000. He then exceeded the 30,000 mark less than five months later.
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Hey Trumpers...
Did you see that Trump's lawyers testified under oath that Trump himself was directing the scheme to have states submit fraudulent vote totals (electors) in an attempt to stop the certification of the election?
Legally speaking... it does not matter at all if he believed he won or not. You can't commit fraud and disrupt a federal proceeding just because you believe in something. Not very smart huh?
* no witch hunt here. These are Trump's own people!
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Mick Joggerrr wrote:
Hey Trumpers...
Did you see that Trump's lawyers testified under oath that Trump himself was directing the scheme to have states submit fraudulent vote totals (electors) in an attempt to stop the certification of the election?
Legally speaking... it does not matter at all if he believed he won or not. You can't commit fraud and disrupt a federal proceeding just because you believe in something. Not very smart huh?
* no witch hunt here. These are Trump's own people!
Would you agree that Trump will never be prosecuted for tax fraud because his tax attorneys and tax accountants did his tax returns and submitted his tax returns for him? Otherwise the SDNY would already have him enshackled?
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I would truly like to meet Trump and am curious about how to do it. I did a lot of searching on Quora today and came to the conclusion that there is no easy way to do it. Attending rallies does not allow reasonable access to him as they are generally huge crowds. I would have no idea how to meet either Clinton, Obama or Bush or even Jimmy Carter for that matter. I have never met a President (However, if I saw Biden on the street I would cross to the other side). I would still shake Clinton and Obama's hand, but probably not Hillary.
Actually, have any of you posters actually shook hands with or had a picture taken with a President or former President? I met one of my Senators once, but not my representative or governor.
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Sally Vix wrote:
Mick Joggerrr wrote:
Hey Trumpers...
Did you see that Trump's lawyers testified under oath that Trump himself was directing the scheme to have states submit fraudulent vote totals (electors) in an attempt to stop the certification of the election?
Legally speaking... it does not matter at all if he believed he won or not. You can't commit fraud and disrupt a federal proceeding just because you believe in something. Not very smart huh?
* no witch hunt here. These are Trump's own people!
Would you agree that Trump will never be prosecuted for tax fraud because his tax attorneys and tax accountants did his tax returns and submitted his tax returns for him? Otherwise the SDNY would already have him enshackled?
I don't claim to have legal expertise on tax fraud prosecution. Especially civil vs criminal penalties with regard to corporate structure and officers. But I would not be dumb enough to say Trump has somehow won or is in the clear because he hasn't been handcuffed for tax crimes. But we do know that Trump's organization was found guilty of fraud on all charges. So that put a stop to him ripping off taxpayers. That is good right?
Trumps own attorneys tried to argue similar to you that his CFO was engaging in fraud on his own. A lone wolf. That was entirely laughable because he continued to be retained doing this for decades. Even after he was arrested, he had a Trump party thrown for him and was rewarded and still on the payroll. Hardly sounds like a bad apple that was going against company policy does it?
I guess staying out of prison is the bar you have set to argue in favor of Trump. If that is your threshold for morality, it is more a reflection of you than anyone else.
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Sally Vix wrote:
2:18 at the casino and back on the grid wrote:
You think orangeman is a multi-billionaire? Ha, ha ha 😂Not
Not me saying it ... Forbes magazine.
Donald Trump is Worth $3.2 Billion
Trump’s net worth is $3.2 billion as of September 2022, with $730 million coming from his social media endeavor Truth Social via the Trump Media and Technology Group, Forbes reported. Trump announced the formation of the platform in October 2021 and launched it in February 2022. As of Nov. 16, 2022, Trump had 4.55 million followers.
Trump had climbed a few steps up Forbes’ billionaire’s list ladder, placing 892 in the world as of November 2022, up from his 1,012 ranking in June of the same year.You've never quite understood that Donald Trump's net worth is based on what he says it is and nothing much more.
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Ronald Dump wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
Not me saying it ... Forbes magazine.
Donald Trump is Worth $3.2 Billion
Trump’s net worth is $3.2 billion as of September 2022, with $730 million coming from his social media endeavor Truth Social via the Trump Media and Technology Group, Forbes reported. Trump announced the formation of the platform in October 2021 and launched it in February 2022. As of Nov. 16, 2022, Trump had 4.55 million followers.
Trump had climbed a few steps up Forbes’ billionaire’s list ladder, placing 892 in the world as of November 2022, up from his 1,012 ranking in June of the same year.You've never quite understood that Donald Trump's net worth is based on what he says it is and nothing much more.
Do you really think that Forbes and other highly respectable financial groups ask Donald Trump, Jeff Bezos, larry ellison, Zuckerberg - Hey "what is your net worth" and they report whatever they say??? Come on dude ... they look at public records, look at their debt and look at everthing else and come up with a new worth?
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Sally Vix wrote:
Would you agree that Trump will never be prosecuted for tax fraud because his tax attorneys and tax accountants did his tax returns and submitted his tax returns for him? Otherwise the SDNY would already have him enshackled?
The "tax attorneys and tax accountants" angle doesn't make much sense, but no prosecutor is going to indict a former president unless there is virtually no chance of losing the case in court. That's probably too high a bar for any tax violation because of the inherent complexity of financial crime cases.
If Trump gets indicted, the most likely case is the classified documents thing which is so obviously and egregiously wrong that it will be difficult for a prosecutor to ignore.
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Sally Vix wrote:
Ronald Dump wrote:
You've never quite understood that Donald Trump's net worth is based on what he says it is and nothing much more.
Do you really think that Forbes and other highly respectable financial groups ask Donald Trump, Jeff Bezos, larry ellison, Zuckerberg - Hey "what is your net worth" and they report whatever they say??? Come on dude ... they look at public records, look at their debt and look at everthing else and come up with a new worth?
To a great degree with Donald Trump...yes. You've never understood this even when it becomes quite apparent publicly.
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Monkeys Skyping wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
Would you agree that Trump will never be prosecuted for tax fraud because his tax attorneys and tax accountants did his tax returns and submitted his tax returns for him? Otherwise the SDNY would already have him enshackled?
The "tax attorneys and tax accountants" angle doesn't make much sense, but no prosecutor is going to indict a former president unless there is virtually no chance of losing the case in court. That's probably too high a bar for any tax violation because of the inherent complexity of financial crime cases.
If Trump gets indicted, the most likely case is the classified documents thing which is so obviously and egregiously wrong that it will be difficult for a prosecutor to ignore.
also the Georgia thing - GA seems pretty dedicated on that one. And maybe NY even.
On the tax thing....once the tax returns are fully out in the public realm, armchair forensic accountants will work day and night to find trump's crimes. I'm sure many crimes will be so egregious that prosecutors will be confident in presenting the info to a grand jury for criminal prosecution. I mean why do you think trump fought releasing his tax returns?
The IRS had one poor guy in charge of finding crimes in DJT's tax returns. One guy. Magnify that by thousands and they will find the goods.
Honestly I'd prefer a state to do the prosecution not the feds...We all know the first Republican president will pardon trump for any and all federal crimes he did or ever will do. The GOP will give trump a get out of jail free card. The GOP is an organized crime operation, after all. They tried a coup just last year!
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Sally Vix wrote:
Ronald Dump wrote:
You've never quite understood that Donald Trump's net worth is based on what he says it is and nothing much more.
Do you really think that Forbes and other highly respectable financial groups ask Donald Trump, Jeff Bezos, larry ellison, Zuckerberg - Hey "what is your net worth" and they report whatever they say??? Come on dude ... they look at public records, look at their debt and look at everthing else and come up with a new worth?
Yes he has lied about his wealth to be placed on Forbes list and it worked.
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Monkeys Skyping wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
Would you agree that Trump will never be prosecuted for tax fraud because his tax attorneys and tax accountants did his tax returns and submitted his tax returns for him? Otherwise the SDNY would already have him enshackled?
The "tax attorneys and tax accountants" angle doesn't make much sense, but no prosecutor is going to indict a former president unless there is virtually no chance of losing the case in court. That's probably too high a bar for any tax violation because of the inherent complexity of financial crime cases.
If Trump gets indicted, the most likely case is the classified documents thing which is so obviously and egregiously wrong that it will be difficult for a prosecutor to ignore.
I agree although a push on some of the Georgia issue and the fake electors scheme could gain some traction. There's probably enough "interpretation" there that it doesn't go anywhere whereas the document issue is quite clear.
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agip wrote:
. . . Honestly I'd prefer a state to do the prosecution not the feds...We all know the first Republican president will pardon trump for any and all federal crimes he did or ever will do. The GOP will give trump a get out of jail free card. The GOP is an organized crime operation, after all. They tried a coup just last year!I wouldn't be surprised to see a Democrat president or governor pardon Trump or commute his sentence should it come to that. In a democracy, it's a really bad look to be jailing former presidents no matter how richly they deserve it.
To preserve democracy it ultimately must be the voters who reject bad actors.
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Monkeys Skyping wrote:
agip wrote:
. . . Honestly I'd prefer a state to do the prosecution not the feds...We all know the first Republican president will pardon trump for any and all federal crimes he did or ever will do. The GOP will give trump a get out of jail free card. The GOP is an organized crime operation, after all. They tried a coup just last year!I wouldn't be surprised to see a Democrat president or governor pardon Trump or commute his sentence should it come to that. In a democracy, it's a really bad look to be jailing former presidents no matter how richly they deserve it.
To preserve democracy it ultimately must be the voters who reject bad actors.
A backroom agreement to pardon if Trump agrees to not run for office again is something I thought might happen. I'm just not sure Trump would go for it as his interest may be more in keeping his name in lights by fighting any penalty.
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Monkeys Skyping wrote:
agip wrote:
. . . Honestly I'd prefer a state to do the prosecution not the feds...We all know the first Republican president will pardon trump for any and all federal crimes he did or ever will do. The GOP will give trump a get out of jail free card. The GOP is an organized crime operation, after all. They tried a coup just last year!I wouldn't be surprised to see a Democrat president or governor pardon Trump or commute his sentence should it come to that. In a democracy, it's a really bad look to be jailing former presidents no matter how richly they deserve it.
To preserve democracy it ultimately must be the voters who reject bad actors.
I think if any Democrat pardoned trump he'd be tossed from the party. Really. Excommunicated. I mean it might happen but it would be a political death sentence for that politician. So I dont' see it happening.
I understand this is a tough thing. We really shouldn't elect criminals to be president - the system can't handle it. But we can't put people above the law. Putting trump above the law would be fundamentally unconstitutional and unAmerican.
But sure, the Rs will try to do the same in the future out of revenge and that will suck. But we have to do it anyway, or it's just an invitation for presidents to commit crimes.
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