Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

Bernie did not almost win the Dem Primary. He did lead for a few key weeks. but it turns out hard left white people in IA and NH don't represent the D party very well. Which is my point.

As for white suburban women...they hate trump. When trump is gone their votes will have to be earned again. Many of them voted R in the past and I'm sure they will vote R again in the future, if the Dems don't find a way to keep them onboard.

The hard left...has yet to prove itself. It may form into something more formidable in the future...but it's not there yet. They are loud but there aren't enough of them voting.

But everyone knows how much Bernie has pulled Biden to the left. That's obvious. So the left is having an effect, no doubt. Many of its ideas got pulled into the center. Which is how this often works.

note that I did not mention healthcare - because I think we all see that we're heading toward single payer.

Fat hurts wrote:

The fact that Bernie and Biden were the last two in the race this time has nothing to do with gender.

It has everything to do with policy. Bernie came close to getting the nomination. That's because the hard left now makes up a very significant portion of the party.

So which of Biden's policy stood out compared to Buttigeg and Klobuchar?

Do you remember "we know him and he knows us"?

Dems used to like a new face, now they are going for the familiar one.

agip wrote:

No (functioning) country has reduced a large prison population by half

No other western democracy has needed to do so. The US could reduce it's per capital prison population by half and would still have double the incarceration rate of any EU country.

That's stunningly screwed up.

Dan Kahneman wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

Things are changing fast agip. And there are lots of white suburban women and African Americans on the hard left.

Bernie almost won the Democratic primary. If you don't think his performance is significant you are totally blind.

Bernie almost won the Democratic primary? Now come on Fats! I think you have to walk that one back.

https://www.google.com/search?q=democratic+primary+results+2020+so+far&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS698US698&oq=democratic+primary+results+2020&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l7.13579j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

No way I walk that back. Bernie was ahead before everybody else dropped out en masse before Super Tuesday. Everyone but Warren endorsed Biden. Then Warren failed to endorse Bernie.

I guess you can argue what "almost" means, but there was a time when it looked like Bernie was going to win.

Again, if you don't think Bernie's performance is significant you are blind. Progressives hold a very large and growing sway over the party.

Monkeys typing wrote:

agip wrote:

No (functioning) country has reduced a large prison population by half

No other western democracy has needed to do so. The US could reduce it's per capital prison population by half and would still have double the incarceration rate of any EU country.

That's stunningly screwed up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

This is interesting, because the rise of Trumpism could actually make a Trump-hater (me) MORE conservative on this issue. Lots of variables in play here, of course, but maybe other western democracies have significantly fewer idiots who commit crimes? The demographics don't necessarily overlap anywhere near perfectly. But, if we live in a country where 40+% of citizens can give Trump the thumbs up after 4.5+ years of watching him, MAYBE we also have a country full of more people (relative to other WD's) willing to break the law?

And if that's true, no, I'm not necessarily willing to decide that a bunch of crimes shouldn't be punished, or should be punished significantly less.....just because the liberals tell me that I should be embarrassed/ashamed of our incarceration rate.

MAYBE, we're largely stuck - for the foreseeable future - with a shitty populace that is "suffering" from pretty reasonable (largely; sure, we can always tweak) criminal laws and punishments.

Monkeys typing wrote:

agip wrote:

No (functioning) country has reduced a large prison population by half

No other western democracy has needed to do so. The US could reduce it's per capital prison population by half and would still have double the incarceration rate of any EU country.

That's stunningly screwed up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

Agreed. Our entire criminal justice system really needs to be re-thought.

Having private companies run prisons (and then contribute gads of money to politicians who promise to be "tough on crime") is nuts.

The "War on Drugs" is nuts.

Incarcerating hundreds of thousands for non-violent crimes is nuts.

Running prisons as basically training grounds for future hard-core criminals is nuts.

...

There is something horribly wrong with the US if we need to have 4x as many people locked up as other "advanced" nations do.

Flagpole wrote:

1100 wrote:

Oh Fats, Fats, Fats . . . (sigh)

We're all with you on this one. But you sounding like a nut case does not help the cause.

Yeah, yeah, I already know your response. I've read it from you a hundred times. This will make a hundred and one. It's quite a bit like talking with Flagpole on any topic.

Anyway, have a good day!

What the hell did I do?

Sorry, Flagpole, my bad. That was really just a test for fun to see how quickly you would be to respond.

I retract any reference to Flagpole.

Fat hurts wrote:

Dan Kahneman wrote:

Bernie almost won the Democratic primary? Now come on Fats! I think you have to walk that one back.

https://www.google.com/search?q=democratic+primary+results+2020+so+far&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS698US698&oq=democratic+primary+results+2020&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l7.13579j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

No way I walk that back. Bernie was ahead before everybody else dropped out en masse before Super Tuesday. Everyone but Warren endorsed Biden. Then Warren failed to endorse Bernie.

I guess you can argue what "almost" means, but there was a time when it looked like Bernie was going to win.

Again, if you don't think Bernie's performance is significant you are blind. Progressives hold a very large and growing sway over the party.

Bernie did have a great significance in this primary and clearly had a role in moving the party further left, I agree with that. But being ahead early isn't almost winning. He's your guy and I don't expect you to accept that , its a small issue anyway.

I also agree that the progressives numbers have been growing. But they might be more visible and louder than their numbers would warrant.

1100 wrote:

Trollminator wrote:

I’m sure he meant WH, senate and congress. . .

I'm going to go with WH, Senate and House.

Sorry yes House - hear the term congress so often but that covers both senate and house

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

The fact that Bernie and Biden were the last two in the race this time has nothing to do with gender.

It has everything to do with policy. Bernie came close to getting the nomination. That's because the hard left now makes up a very significant portion of the party.

So which of Biden's policy stood out compared to Buttigeg and Klobuchar?

Do you remember "we know him and he knows us"?

Dems used to like a new face, now they are going for the familiar one.

Dems want to win, so Biden it is

I agree we have too many people in prisons. But I think some people should spend MORE time in prison, not less. I am talking about people like Manafort, Gates, Stone and Flynn. And hopefully, we can lock up Giuliani and Trump.

Monkeys typing wrote:

agip wrote:

No (functioning) country has reduced a large prison population by half

No other western democracy has needed to do so. The US could reduce it's per capital prison population by half and would still have double the incarceration rate of any EU country.

That's stunningly screwed up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

Like I said, we can disagree on the meaning of "almost".

Bernie wasn't actually my guy. I was going to vote for Warren until I analyzed their climate plans. I thought Bernie's was a little better so I switched to him.

Fat hurts wrote:

Dan Kahneman. wrote:

Bernie did have a great significance in this primary and clearly had a role in moving the party further left, I agree with that. But being ahead early isn't almost winning. He's your guy and I don't expect you to accept that , its a small issue anyway.

I also agree that the progressives numbers have been growing. But they might be more visible and louder than their numbers would warrant.

Like I said, we can disagree on the meaning of "almost".

Bernie wasn't actually my guy. I was going to vote for Warren until I analyzed their climate plans. I thought Bernie's was a little better so I switched to him.

We really can’t advance on any of these major issues with both parties moving further in opposite directions. If we had more than one party then some would be forced to work together to push their agenda. You then might have something like a “Green Party” offering to build a coalition so Dems could gain a super majority vote, if they were willing to push their climate plan. Under the current system with extreme identity politics and often disregard to act on strong public opinion, there just is no incentive for one side to work with the other. That’s why the pendulum will continue swinging and we get nowhere, except sometimes backwards under a R government. The country seems to be less fkd when we have a Dem POTUS, but is still trending fcked regardless.

L L wrote:

Trollminator wrote:

I think that both Warren and Harris are POTUS material, so no issue there. My personal choice would be Warren but I don't want to leave any better chance for trump to somehow pull it off in Nov. What good are all of Warren's strengths if her and Biden never make it to the WH?

Biden is going to win every swing state plus some surprises, even if Warren is the VP.

The socialist fear mongering is a serious threat to any Democrat though. Too many Americans live in a bubble and lack education on how things work successfully elsewhere. The moment Warren is announced as Biden's VP would mark a turning point in R strategy. They would get most of their base to believe that Warren is a communist threat to the constitution. I think something like that would eat into Biden's lead in the polls and you would see a lot of silent conservatives hold their noses and vote for trump again.

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

I agree we have too many people in prisons. But I think some people should spend MORE time in prison, not less.

I am talking about people like Manafort, Gates, Stone and Flynn. And hopefully, we can lock up Giuliani and Trump.

Monkeys typing wrote:

No other western democracy has needed to do so. The US could reduce it's per capital prison population by half and would still have double the incarceration rate of any EU country.

That's stunningly screwed up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

We get to the point that these issues have marinated for way too long without any attention and can reach a breaking point. But that is happening with issues on both the right and left. The right got fed up with GOP weakness and lack of messaging on immigration and social justice issues, they wanted blood and the likes of Romney couldn't deliver. That's why we had the tea party and now trump. Similar on the left, people get tired of seeing no progress and then you get AOC and Bernie becomes a viable candidate. But where does it get us when there are extremes on both sides and only moving further apart? Moderates will continue winning and not getting anything done - unless we get a Trump of the left at some point.

Trollminator wrote:

We get to the point that these issues have marinated for way too long without any attention and can reach a breaking point. But that is happening with issues on both the right and left. The right got fed up with GOP weakness and lack of messaging on immigration and social justice issues, they wanted blood and the likes of Romney couldn't deliver. That's why we had the tea party and now trump. Similar on the left, people get tired of seeing no progress and then you get AOC and Bernie becomes a viable candidate. But where does it get us when there are extremes on both sides and only moving further apart? Moderates will continue winning and not getting anything done - unless we get a Trump of the left at some point.

What's so "extreme" about treating every one equally under law? Do you think some people deserve to be treated better just because they are rich and well connected?

Both Trump and Giuliani should be indicted for the crimes they committed, and be punished based on the sentencing guideline. It's not about wanting to see blood. It's about wanting to see justice. We need to send a strong message to future political candidates and their associates that crime does not pay.

Agreed

I don't claim to know which of the Trump clan and cohorts deserve serious jail time and which do not. But certainly everyone (even the rich) should be equal before the law. Otherwise, the law is not really The Law - more like guidelines to be shifted as convenient.

this will be the major story of the fall. Does this country have the ability to put country in front of party and hold free and fair elections during the plague. Without any help from DC.

Republicans are already trying to foul the vote by not having vote by mail. Will local and state governments led by Rs step up and make elections happen?

Or will they step down and let chaos and disenfranchisement happen because they think it will hurt the libs?

I'm not optimistic. Trumpism and GOPism have ruined the politics of this nation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/27/us/2020-primary-election-voting.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage