have to say here that corporate america has failed again.
they spent trillions on buybacks instead of squirrelling money away for times like this.
Just like they messed up in the years leading up to the 2008-9 financial crisis they should have not made loans that were detrimental to their long term health.
Capitalism is like democracy...it is the best way but it fails a lot.
agip wrote:
have to say here that corporate america has failed again.
they spent trillions on buybacks instead of squirrelling money away for times like this.
Just like they messed up in the years leading up to the 2008-9 financial crisis they should have not made loans that were detrimental to their long term health.
Capitalism is like democracy...it is the best way but it fails a lot.
because human beings make a lot of bad decisions and human beings run both systems.
agip wrote:
the scariest part is that ultimately the states are going to have to be bailed out. They are going to spend billions while losing billions of taxes. I would not want to be a pensioner in a state right now. Or any state employee...mass firings of state employees are coming.
The feds can print money...the states cannot.
You are really frickin' clueless. There will not be massive firings of state employees. There will be possibly lowering of head-counts via attrition, restrictions on training and travel, etc.
Armstronglivs wrote:
CountChocula wrote:
Yes, the only two leaders who have ever existed are Hitler and Kennedy.
I don't expect you've heard of any others.
Indeed; I disagree with you and therefore I must be a moran.
I didn't use that word but if the cap fits.
moderates suck wrote:
agip wrote:
the scariest part is that ultimately the states are going to have to be bailed out. They are going to spend billions while losing billions of taxes. I would not want to be a pensioner in a state right now. Or any state employee...mass firings of state employees are coming.
The feds can print money...the states cannot.
You are really frickin' clueless. There will not be massive firings of state employees. There will be possibly lowering of head-counts via attrition, restrictions on training and travel, etc.
yes, you are right - just looked that up. Interesting. In 2008-9 there was shrinkage of state employment, but less than 1%.
I'll retract the firings part for now. but that just makes state finances more precarious - if they can't cut costs.
This should be a big story if warnings from U.S. intelligence was ignored because of Trump's concerns about the market:
It's tiresome that every official defense of Trump includes over the top praise of him and bashing anyone that dares criticizing him:
"President Trump has taken historic, aggressive measures to protect the health, wealth and safety of the American people -- and did so, while the media and Democrats chose to only focus on the stupid politics of a sham illegitimate impeachment," Gidley (WH spokesperson) told the paper in a statement. "It's more than disgusting, despicable and disgraceful for cowardly unnamed sources to attempt to rewrite history -- it's a clear threat to this great country."
Daily new cases actually *dropped* yesterday. Obvi this is dependent on testing, but this far into the pandemic, with testing ramped up...I wouldn't expect that.
One piece of good news (probably) in a sea of gloom.
March 20: 30,664
March 21: 29,439
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/
agip wrote:
Daily new cases actually *dropped* yesterday.
2600 cases came in at 00:30 GMT that would have preserved the trend had they arrive 31 minutes earlier. Instead they appear to just be giving today a head start. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
on death counts not even being accurate...
here's evidence that they are not.
In nursing homes, people who died are not being tested after death.
They'll do some sort of excess mortality thing eventually but probably many more people are dying than we know.
“There are significant numbers of people who have died but whose death hasn’t been attributed to the coronavirus because they died at home or in a nursing home and so they weren’t swabbed,” said Giorgio Gori, mayor of the town of Bergamo.
Gori said there had been 164 deaths in his town in the first two weeks of March this year, of which 31 were attributed to the coronavirus. That compares with 56 deaths over the same period last year.
Even adding the 31 coronavirus deaths to that total would leave 77 additional deaths, an increase that suggests the virus may have caused significantly more deaths than officially recorded.
agip wrote:
Daily new cases actually *dropped* yesterday. Obvi this is dependent on testing, but this far into the pandemic, with testing ramped up...I wouldn't expect that.
One piece of good news (probably) in a sea of gloom.
March 20: 30,664
March 21: 29,439
I wish I could share your optimism. But I think it's just a fluctuation due to testing and reporting.
I don't know if labs are at full capacity on the weekends. Also, I've heard reports that drive-up testing is being suspended in many areas because of a national shortage of test kits and processing materials
Fat hurts wrote:
agip wrote:
Daily new cases actually *dropped* yesterday. Obvi this is dependent on testing, but this far into the pandemic, with testing ramped up...I wouldn't expect that.
One piece of good news (probably) in a sea of gloom.
March 20: 30,664
March 21: 29,439
I wish I could share your optimism. But I think it's just a fluctuation due to testing and reporting.
I don't know if labs are at full capacity on the weekends. Also, I've heard reports that drive-up testing is being suspended in many areas because of a national shortage of test kits and processing materials
agreed
Based on when the self-quarantine and social distancing started, I think it will be another week before the USA has any idea if it is working. Italy's lockdown was 12 days ago I think? So perhaps there will be good news from there soon.
This is just a weekend effect. Governments are slower to collect and transmit this information on a weekend. Expect a huge surge on Monday.
agip wrote:
the scariest part is that ultimately the states are going to have to be bailed out. They are going to spend billions while losing billions of taxes.
Many states' constitutions require the state to balance its budget on an annual basis.
kibitzer wrote:
agip wrote:
the scariest part is that ultimately the states are going to have to be bailed out. They are going to spend billions while losing billions of taxes.
Many states' constitutions require the state to balance its budget on an annual basis.
so in those states their options are:
reduce workforce
reduce payments to pension funds
raise taxes
issue bonds
cut services
financial trickery..moving costs around in a fake fashion
get bailed out by the federal printing press.
probably there are other options.
agip wrote:
have to say here that corporate america has failed again.
they spent trillions on buybacks instead of squirrelling money away for times like this.
Just like they messed up in the years leading up to the 2008-9 financial crisis they should have not made loans that were detrimental to their long term health.
Capitalism is like democracy...it is the best way but it fails a lot.
"Capitalism is the worst form of economic system... except for everything we have ever tried."
Which Nobel laureate said this?
The alternative is for the government to run a budget surplus and pay down the debt. But our government does not have that kind of discipline. Ds want to spend every tax dollar available, and Rs want to cut taxes any time possible. As for individual citizens... never mind.
Up to 38,000 right now. Even the one day delay was fake.
Forgotten Man wrote:
agip wrote:
have to say here that corporate america has failed again.
they spent trillions on buybacks instead of squirrelling money away for times like this.
Just like they messed up in the years leading up to the 2008-9 financial crisis they should have not made loans that were detrimental to their long term health.
Capitalism is like democracy...it is the best way but it fails a lot.
"Capitalism is the worst form of economic system... except for everything we have ever tried."
Which Nobel laureate said this?
Didn't Churchill say that about democracy?
CountChocula wrote:
Based on when the self-quarantine and social distancing started, I think it will be another week before the USA has any idea if it is working. Italy's lockdown was 12 days ago I think? So perhaps there will be good news from there soon.
Yes, it would be great to see some promising numbers from Italy over the next few days. Right now we have no idea if any of this is really going to work.