P wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
Interesting thoughts. Although you briefly address Trump's situation as being worse, most of your post points to a hypothetical false equivalency. If democrats were in this position they would do the same thing and support a lying law breaking president.
I have two issues with that. (1) It seems to be the defense that yeah it's not right but everybody does it so It's no big deal. With the logical implication, so lets not be shocked or outraged or have significant punishment. It's just politics.
(2) Democrats are known to "eat their own" and do not follow lockstep with leaders as much as republicans. You don't know what democrats would do in this situation. But we do know how republicans responded to this abuse of power.
Your question about why we readily elect ask serving worms is a good one. Here's my take on that. A politician who is not a self serving worm will be honest with the electorate and tell them both the things they want to hear and the truthful but difficult things to hear. We won't elect that person. The person who tells us how great and easy things will be is the person we elect. We will always chose lies that make us feel good over honesty.
You appear to have reading comprehension problem. That is a shame, but it is not something that I can help you with.
My bad, I should have ignored your post as everyone else did.
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Uh oh, Dems.
https://freebeacon.com/politics/abcs-bombshell-ukraine-story-falls-apart/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
The Washington Free Beacon? Get your news from a reliable source that deals with facts and relevance, dumb dumb.
That site was started in 2012 by conservative nut Paul Singer. Dumb dumb.
Gordon Frank wrote:
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Uh oh, Dems.
https://freebeacon.com/politics/abcs-bombshell-ukraine-story-falls-apart/amp/?__twitter_impression=trueThe Washington Free Beacon? Get your news from a reliable source that deals with facts and relevance, dumb dumb.
That site was started in 2012 by conservative nut Paul Singer. Dumb dumb.
Well the MSM lied to you again. Shocker. Find better non-corporate news sources, next time.
The. ery Liberal Jeff Bezos owns the WaPo. Doofus.
Actually trump has confirmed the story himself. Normally I don’t credit him as a source - he’s a liar & stupid - but when he & his enemies in the press agree on something, that has some credibility.
What's being lost in all of this is how F-ing stupid Trump is. So he hears about the Biden story and after spanking the presidential monkey, he decides the MSM is protecting Biden. If he had had someone research the story, and maybe he did, he would have learned there was no evidence to support the accusation. The only possibility would be if Biden had revealed his true intention over drinks to someone. Trump plows ahead anyway and gets Guiliani, who appears to have suffered a brain injury, involved.
He then has his phone call with the Ukrainian president. It's unknown whether he really thought it was a "perfect" call or that he thought itwould never see the light of day.
That he had asked a foreign leader to investigate becomes public information. Although attorneys in the administration tried to cover it up, Trump believes releasing the transcript will vindicate him, but it 100% confirmed the accusation:
"Will the Democrats apologize after seeing what was said on the call with the Ukrainian President? They should, a perfect call - got them by surprise!"
In summary, Trump risked impeachment by trying to get Ukrainians to start an investigation that had close to a zero percent chance of being successful. Some people say he wants to be impeached, but he did call Pelosi to try to "work something out" and officials in the WS say he has no interest in having been impeached as part of his legacy.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
What's being lost in all of this is how F-ing stupid Trump is. So he hears about the Biden story and after spanking the presidential monkey, he decides the MSM is protecting Biden. If he had had someone research the story, and maybe he did, he would have learned there was no evidence to support the accusation. The only possibility would be if Biden had revealed his true intention over drinks to someone. Trump plows ahead anyway and gets Guiliani, who appears to have suffered a brain injury, involved.
What Tiny did could easily have worked.
It looks like Ukraine was prepared to play ball. They had little choice.
So if the whistle had not been blown on all of this, Ukraine would have fabricated stories about Biden and his son. It very well may have won Tiny a second term.
Fat hurts wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
What's being lost in all of this is how F-ing stupid Trump is. So he hears about the Biden story and after spanking the presidential monkey, he decides the MSM is protecting Biden. If he had had someone research the story, and maybe he did, he would have learned there was no evidence to support the accusation. The only possibility would be if Biden had revealed his true intention over drinks to someone. Trump plows ahead anyway and gets Guiliani, who appears to have suffered a brain injury, involved.
What Tiny did could easily have worked.
It looks like Ukraine was prepared to play ball. They had little choice.
So if the whistle had not been blown on all of this, Ukraine would have fabricated stories about Biden and his son. It very well may have won Tiny a second term.
$100 says some right wing sycophant is out there trying to find some Eastern European law enforcement officer somewhere who will say that the Bidens are crimers. It's not over.
But in bigger news...came out today that Trump TOLD THE RUSSIANS HE DOESN"T CARE IF THEY MEDDLE IN US ELECTIONS.
If you want a clear example of how Trump doesn't care about the national good, there it is.
Yeah I could cite a dozen other acts that prove spanks doesn't care about the nation, but that's the latest and clear as a bell.
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Gordon Frank wrote:
The Washington Free Beacon? Get your news from a reliable source that deals with facts and relevance, dumb dumb.
That site was started in 2012 by conservative nut Paul Singer. Dumb dumb.
Well the MSM lied to you again. Shocker. Find better non-corporate news sources, next time.
The. ery Liberal Jeff Bezos owns the WaPo. Doofus.
The Washington Post is a highly respected newspaper that has the best journalists in this country. Unparalleled reporting awards. The Free Beacon? Free? You get what you pay for. No reasonable person would say the Free Beacon is a better journalistic source than the Washington Post. Dumb dumb.
the metaphorical rats are starting to see that the USS Republican Party is not experiencing calm winds and following seas.
More, please.
jesseriley wrote:
Actually trump has confirmed the story himself. Normally I don’t credit him as a source - he’s a liar & stupid - but when he & his enemies in the press agree on something, that has some credibility.
It's the relevance that matters here. There will be some stories that come out that have some facts wrong. That happens all the time when there is an investigation going on. Equivalency is important. What we know is that Trump conspired with the President of a foreign country to get damaging information on his political rival. That is wrong. That is illegal. That is impeachable. Rigged is supporting a criminal President. Rigged is a dumb dumb.
Gordon Frank wrote:
jesseriley wrote:
Actually trump has confirmed the story himself. Normally I don’t credit him as a source - he’s a liar & stupid - but when he & his enemies in the press agree on something, that has some credibility.
It's the relevance that matters here. There will be some stories that come out that have some facts wrong. That happens all the time when there is an investigation going on. Equivalency is important. What we know is that Trump conspired with the President of a foreign country to get damaging information on his political rival. That is wrong. That is illegal. That is impeachable. Rigged is supporting a criminal President. Rigged is a dumb dumb.
Trump asked for help from foreign nations
Trump's minions worked with and coordinated with the foreign help when it arrived
Trump said he would again welcome foreign help if it were offered
Trump told Russia he had no problem with foreign help
Trump extorted Ukraine for help with his election effort.
Trump's people used the national security apparatus to cover up Trump's asking for and welcoming foreign help
Trump's people hid from Mueller that Trump had told the Russians he had no problem with them helping him again.
My dudes, impeachment is letting this guy off light.
And his people are no doubt lawyering up this weekend and getting in line to start helping law enforcement by showing them where the bodies are buried.
The end game is NOT a Senate conviction. A Senate conviction is NEVER going to happen. Politics is much too tribal these days. A large enough segment of voters will ALWAYS side with their side NO MATTER what....sexual harassment, assault, rape, murder...it simply wouldn't matter to many as long as THEIR SIDE wins.
The investigations into Trump has ALWAYS been about the bigger picture....House and Senate seats. The impeachment inquiries will continue on for a few weeks or months resulting in a handful of Republicans in moderate states voting to convict, but not enough.
Enough moderates and independents who voted for Trump because he wasn't a politician or because he was a businessman will either sit home or vote the other way swinging a number of states to Trump and the Dems in general.
The Dems are creating a toxic environment for the GOP not seen since Nixon.
I'm going to predict a landslide Trump loss, with the Dem candidate winning with over 350 electoral votes. The Dems will take back the Senate and take another 20 House seats.
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
The end game is NOT a Senate conviction. A Senate conviction is NEVER going to happen. Politics is much too tribal these days. A large enough segment of voters will ALWAYS side with their side NO MATTER what....sexual harassment, assault, rape, murder...it simply wouldn't matter to many as long as THEIR SIDE wins.
The investigations into Trump has ALWAYS been about the bigger picture....House and Senate seats. The impeachment inquiries will continue on for a few weeks or months resulting in a handful of Republicans in moderate states voting to convict, but not enough.
Enough moderates and independents who voted for Trump because he wasn't a politician or because he was a businessman will either sit home or vote the other way swinging a number of states to Trump and the Dems in general.
The Dems are creating a toxic environment for the GOP not seen since Nixon.
I'm going to predict a landslide Trump loss, with the Dem candidate winning with over 350 electoral votes. The Dems will take back the Senate and take another 20 House seats.
Alan
well come on it's not just about who gets the most votes - most dems want to serve the Republic by stopping trump and trumpism from doing more damage. Dems know it's a tradeoff - impeach will inflame millions of trumpers to be even more rabid. Evangelicals will literally think the devil is behind impeachment and rally hard. And dems would have won the WH anyway next year. So there is some principle involved here.
Big prediction - I'll add it to my list.
and
$400 million withdrawn from a Ukraine beset by Trump's buddy Putin and his proxy armies and Trump asks for a favor to have the Ukraine president meet with his attorney general, Barr, and his personal lawyer, Giuliani to deal with a Biden investigation. That is all there in the president's expurgated transcript. There could hardly be any more impeachable offense and I think that it is clear now that he will be impeached, but it is going to take time. The only question about that is whether the Republicans will at some point decide that their boy is so tarred by his own arrogant and foolish actions, taken a day after Mueller testified in Congress, as to sink them in the 2020 elections, and join both the impeachment vote and the demand for a Senate trial. I very much doubt that they will remove him from office. They'd have to be sure his popular support was gone and their own political lives were on the line. And they wouldn't mind Pence if not for the fact that right now Trump drives all Republican support. Regardless, I also think that the Republicans are going to get hammered in the election.
zcxzxvc wrote:
$400 million withdrawn from a Ukraine beset by Trump's buddy Putin and his proxy armies and Trump asks for a favor to have the Ukraine president meet with his attorney general, Barr, and his personal lawyer, Giuliani to deal with a Biden investigation. That is all there in the president's expurgated transcript. There could hardly be any more impeachable offense and I think that it is clear now that he will be impeached, but it is going to take time. The only question about that is whether the Republicans will at some point decide that their boy is so tarred by his own arrogant and foolish actions, taken a day after Mueller testified in Congress, as to sink them in the 2020 elections, and join both the impeachment vote and the demand for a Senate trial. I very much doubt that they will remove him from office. They'd have to be sure his popular support was gone and their own political lives were on the line. And they wouldn't mind Pence if not for the fact that right now Trump drives all Republican support. Regardless, I also think that the Republicans are going to get hammered in the election.
I don't think there's much chance at all of trump losing much support. I mean those people are SOLD man. They signed on the dotted line, bought the time share, bought the steaks, got the Trump U degree, etc. He has 90% or more approval inside the R party. That's not going away.
They say Nixon got down to maybe 60% approval inside the R party and that was enough.
But Nixon didn't have Fox news and the completely stupid loathing of Dems inside the R party.
Democrats lose again!!!!
Democrats lose again!!!!
agip wrote:
zcxzxvc wrote:
$400 million withdrawn from a Ukraine beset by Trump's buddy Putin and his proxy armies and Trump asks for a favor to have the Ukraine president meet with his attorney general, Barr, and his personal lawyer, Giuliani to deal with a Biden investigation. That is all there in the president's expurgated transcript. There could hardly be any more impeachable offense and I think that it is clear now that he will be impeached, but it is going to take time. The only question about that is whether the Republicans will at some point decide that their boy is so tarred by his own arrogant and foolish actions, taken a day after Mueller testified in Congress, as to sink them in the 2020 elections, and join both the impeachment vote and the demand for a Senate trial. I very much doubt that they will remove him from office. They'd have to be sure his popular support was gone and their own political lives were on the line. And they wouldn't mind Pence if not for the fact that right now Trump drives all Republican support. Regardless, I also think that the Republicans are going to get hammered in the election.
I don't think there's much chance at all of trump losing much support. I mean those people are SOLD man. They signed on the dotted line, bought the time share, bought the steaks, got the Trump U degree, etc. He has 90% or more approval inside the R party. That's not going away.
They say Nixon got down to maybe 60% approval inside the R party and that was enough.
But Nixon didn't have Fox news and the completely stupid loathing of Dems inside the R party.
I wouldn't be so sure. The bad news surrounding this isn't done coming out, and it's going to get worse. The fact is that we are dealing with Trump...a man who doesn't believe it is wrong to work with foreign countries to get dirt on an opponent. We have these phone calls now with Putin and the Saudi Crown Prince that also went into the secure vault. We have relative silence from McConnell (he did make a couple of half-hearted comments supporting Trump, but he has been mostly quiet). We have Sasse saying Republicans shouldn't be so quick to circle the wagons. We have Jeff Flake saying that 35 or more Republican Senators would vote to convict if they could do so secretly. We have some Republicans saying the call didn't show quid pro quo -- well, that's debatable, but that doesn't need to be shown. Conspiracy to work with a foreign government to interfere in our election has already been shown and admitted to by Trump and Giuliani. That is not ok. At some point (a point I believe has a GREAT chance of happening), some will decide to be on the just side of history.
RCP Trump Approval last 4 days:
45.3
44.9
44.7
44.6
44.4
Let's see what's in those other phone calls. Let's see what happens to Giuliani and Barr.
This could easily mushroom to the point where the Senate will HAVE to convict. I am not calling that yet, but I am also not saying it can't happen.
Trump will be impeached.
Trump will go to prison.
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
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