POTUS made a big deal out of this guy's initial, erroneous announcement of "95,000 illegal voters!"
Naturally, no correction from DJTrump when that was show to be bogus.
Hillary actually testified in the Benghazi investigation.
Still waiting for Trump to testify or verbally answer any questions.
Can't think about moving on until that.
Blocking subpoenaed documents isn't helping him either.
...was shown to be bogus.
Racket wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
You are comparing Lewinsky giving Clinton a BJ to the serial lying of Trump? To the bank fraud, wire fraud, insurance fraud, and/or tax fraud, FELONY campaign finance law violations, emoluments clause violation, blatant obstruction of justice, and likely RICO charges?
What is you, ignorant?
How is it not abundantly clear to you by now that no one cares?
Trump's a huge crook? Yeah, no sh!t. He's guilty as sin, everyone knows it, and he's still president. And he'll remain president until we vote him out. That's the bottom line really. No one with significant political clout in DC actually cares.
I disagree that no one cares. I also disagrees that everyone knows it. Timing is an issue, so you may be right that the only way we remove him is to vote him out, but the M.A.G.A. fool was making a comparison that was ridiculous. No one is going to "move on". Trump is in big trouble, and he will spend time in prison when this is all over...unless he dies first or there is crime that prevents it or space aliens make it not so.
On the positive side, I was reading about the impeachment of Johnson, in the 1860s. That guy was very trumpy. Hated elites and blacks, loved whites, favored the confederacy. Loathed congress and deliberately tried to undermine both house and senate. Profane, nasty and a liar.
Point is, he deliberately and repeatedly started constitutional crises by defying congress.
And this was just 3 years after fighting had stopped in the civil war, and millions of southern whites and blacks were utterly terrified of each other.
Johnson was impeached in the house, and while most senators voted to convict, the 2/3rds majority failed to convict, probably because of a bribed Kansas senator voted with Johnson.
So all that is going on, and there is the usual l19c massive corruption everywhere...but you know what? Things moved on. We got through it.
Maybe after trump is gone, even after 8 years of his emulating enemy despots around the world, institutions will hold.
But four years would certainly be easier to come from than eight.
What the dems lack is a loud voice. Someone who can shout about R corruption and lies with honesty and honor. We just don't have that. No one is out there calling it like it is. A real failing in D leadership.
agip wrote:
Racket wrote:
How is it not abundantly clear to you by now that no one cares?
Trump's a huge crook? Yeah, no sh!t. He's guilty as sin, everyone knows it, and he's still president. And he'll remain president until we vote him out. That's the bottom line really. No one with significant political clout in DC actually cares.
I think you are wrong on the last point - people with clout do care. Jerry Nadler, for one, cares a lot, as does Amash, who should inspire some patriotism among Rs eventually.
What's happening is this:
The Dems have had the House for four months. They have started to investigate. Republicans have attempted to block them. The courts have begun siding with the Dems.
It's a process. Pelosi doesn't want to go straight to impeachment until a) the courts have struck down the ridiculous R claims, and the Ds get a all the info from deutsche bank and spanky's accounting firm.
It makes little sense to impeach now, before we see the bank fraud and money laundering at DB.
Pelosi cares - she is crossing the Ts and dotting the Is before impeachment.
Soon courts will rule that Trumpers cannot in fact ignore congressional subpoenas, and they will be jailed or fined until they testify. That's all coming. Trump doesn't have a legal leg to stand on here. It's all happening, and will happen before the election.
Yep. Timing is still an issue regarding impeachment.
Flagpole wrote:
agip wrote:
.
I think you are wrong on the last point - people with clout do care. Jerry Nadler, for one, cares a lot, as does Amash, who should inspire some patriotism among Rs eventually.
What's happening is this:
The Dems have had the House for four months. They have started to investigate. Republicans have attempted to block them. The courts have begun siding with the Dems.
It's a process. Pelosi doesn't want to go straight to impeachment until a) the courts have struck down the ridiculous R claims, and the Ds get a all the info from deutsche bank and spanky's accounting firm.
It makes little sense to impeach now, before we see the bank fraud and money laundering at DB.
Pelosi cares - she is crossing the Ts and dotting the Is before impeachment.
Soon courts will rule that Trumpers cannot in fact ignore congressional subpoenas, and they will be jailed or fined until they testify. That's all coming. Trump doesn't have a legal leg to stand on here. It's all happening, and will happen before the election.
Yep. Timing is still an issue regarding impeachment.
yeah, and since mueller deliberately charged congress with investigating obstruction charges, Ds are doing that. Ds subpoenaed a bunch of people, but they refused to come. Now the courts need to tell those people to show up so the Dems can follow Mueller's start. Or at least check on Mueller's findings. Takes time.
agip wrote:
It makes little sense to impeach now, before we see the bank fraud and money laundering at DB.
Dems also said it made little sense to impeach before they saw the Mueller report. Well, you saw the Mueller report, and now you are moving the goal post. So what are you going to do if the accounting and the bank records do not prove anything? Try to find another "scandal"? Your fishing expedition is looking worse than Ken Starr's.
Make America Great Again wrote:
agip wrote:
It makes little sense to impeach now, before we see the bank fraud and money laundering at DB.
Dems also said it made little sense to impeach before they saw the Mueller report. Well, you saw the Mueller report, and now you are moving the goal post. So what are you going to do if the accounting and the bank records do not prove anything? Try to find another "scandal"? Your fishing expedition is looking worse than Ken Starr's.
I'm sorry you don't want the American people to know if the president of the united states is a criminal. I'm sorry you don't want the congress to follow Mueller's guidelines on obstruction. I'm sorry you have put party over nation.
There is likely enough to impeach already, on obstruction. Mueller laid it out for congress to deal with, since the DOJ refuses to indict a sitting president. So congress has to do the work. You feel congress shouldn't do that work. ok. Not a patriotic stand, but it's a position.
Waiting for the Mueller report was a huge mistake.
They could have impeached solely based on Michael Cohen's conviction for the illegal work he did on behalf of Trump.
agip wrote:
Make America Great Again wrote:
Dems also said it made little sense to impeach before they saw the Mueller report. Well, you saw the Mueller report, and now you are moving the goal post. So what are you going to do if the accounting and the bank records do not prove anything? Try to find another "scandal"? Your fishing expedition is looking worse than Ken Starr's.
I'm sorry you don't want the American people to know if the president of the united states is a criminal. I'm sorry you don't want the congress to follow Mueller's guidelines on obstruction. I'm sorry you have put party over nation.
There is likely enough to impeach already, on obstruction. Mueller laid it out for congress to deal with, since the DOJ refuses to indict a sitting president. So congress has to do the work. You feel congress shouldn't do that work. ok. Not a patriotic stand, but it's a position.
put another way: over 900 former federal prosecutors said Trump is guilty of a felony: obstruction of justice. But you don't want him to suffer the consequences.
It's also likely that trump committed a campaign finance felony in the stormy daniels deal. But you don't want him to suffer the consequences.
Heck, you don't even want him investigated.
It's nuts and unamerican, but that's the R party right now.
Ciro wrote:
Why can’t he use these occasions to honor and recognize the military without twisting it into a personal political rally?
Why does he lie to the military and about the military?
Why don’t conservatives condemn his lies?
Just wait until Trump takes over the 4th of July and turns into a mega-rally about himself. He slapped tariffs on Chinese fireworks, which means that 95% of the fireworks usually sold to the US for the holiday will not be available. Trump is planning on taking over the Yuge Washington Mall fireworks show so he can give a "speech". Plenty of fireworks will be available for the Trump of July show … likely a lot more fireworks than normal.
agip wrote:
On the positive side, I was reading about the impeachment of Johnson, in the 1860s. That guy was very trumpy. Hated elites and blacks, loved whites, favored the confederacy. Loathed congress and deliberately tried to undermine both house and senate. Profane, nasty and a liar.
Point is, he deliberately and repeatedly started constitutional crises by defying congress.
And this was just 3 years after fighting had stopped in the civil war, and millions of southern whites and blacks were utterly terrified of each other.
Johnson was impeached in the house, and while most senators voted to convict, the 2/3rds majority failed to convict, probably because of a bribed Kansas senator voted with Johnson.
So all that is going on, and there is the usual l19c massive corruption everywhere...but you know what? Things moved on. We got through it.
Maybe after trump is gone, even after 8 years of his emulating enemy despots around the world, institutions will hold.
But four years would certainly be easier to come from than eight.
He also fired a bunch of cabinet members and went on big publicity tours to slam his opponents. His fvcking up of Reconstruction basically allowed for Jim Crow laws and rampant poverty in the South so I wouldn't say "we got through it" very easily.
Racket wrote:
agip wrote:
On the positive side, I was reading about the impeachment of Johnson, in the 1860s. That guy was very trumpy. Hated elites and blacks, loved whites, favored the confederacy. Loathed congress and deliberately tried to undermine both house and senate. Profane, nasty and a liar.
Point is, he deliberately and repeatedly started constitutional crises by defying congress.
And this was just 3 years after fighting had stopped in the civil war, and millions of southern whites and blacks were utterly terrified of each other.
Johnson was impeached in the house, and while most senators voted to convict, the 2/3rds majority failed to convict, probably because of a bribed Kansas senator voted with Johnson.
So all that is going on, and there is the usual l19c massive corruption everywhere...but you know what? Things moved on. We got through it.
Maybe after trump is gone, even after 8 years of his emulating enemy despots around the world, institutions will hold.
But four years would certainly be easier to come from than eight.
He also fired a bunch of cabinet members and went on big publicity tours to slam his opponents. His fvcking up of Reconstruction basically allowed for Jim Crow laws and rampant poverty in the South so I wouldn't say "we got through it" very easily.
can we really blame 100 years of bad race relations in the south on one guy?
but I understand your point and it's valid.
certainly if trump changes the country the way he wants to change the country, we'll pay for it for generations. The question is if we'll go back to normal or if our course has turned.
For example, will foreign countries ever trust us again, after we back out of so many multinational agreements? after calling them national security threats? after letting barr de-classify secrets? we have elected to republican presidents (bush2 and trump) who made such massive and terrible mistakes...will they wait for an Obama or just throw up their hands and figure the US is a yahoo country not to be trusted?
and then there is the example of a president deliberately trying to create dissension in the USA. can the deplorables be shamed into being quiet again? Or has trump let them out of the bottle and they aren't going back until they wear brown shirts and kill even more jews?
Trump of July wrote:
Ciro wrote:
Why can’t he use these occasions to honor and recognize the military without twisting it into a personal political rally?
Why does he lie to the military and about the military?
Why don’t conservatives condemn his lies?
Just wait until Trump takes over the 4th of July and turns into a mega-rally about himself. He slapped tariffs on Chinese fireworks, which means that 95% of the fireworks usually sold to the US for the holiday will not be available. Trump is planning on taking over the Yuge Washington Mall fireworks show so he can give a "speech". Plenty of fireworks will be available for the Trump of July show … likely a lot more fireworks than normal.
$10 says an exception will be made and the fireworks will show up, untariffed.
but if I were the Chinese, I'd put massive slowdowns on the fireworks shipments, so they arrive on July 5th. That would get he country's attention.
agip wrote:
Racket wrote:
He also fired a bunch of cabinet members and went on big publicity tours to slam his opponents. His fvcking up of Reconstruction basically allowed for Jim Crow laws and rampant poverty in the South so I wouldn't say "we got through it" very easily.
can we really blame 100 years of bad race relations in the south on one guy?
but I understand your point and it's valid.
certainly if trump changes the country the way he wants to change the country, we'll pay for it for generations. The question is if we'll go back to normal or if our course has turned.
For example, will foreign countries ever trust us again, after we back out of so many multinational agreements? after calling them national security threats? after letting barr de-classify secrets? we have elected to republican presidents (bush2 and trump) who made such massive and terrible mistakes...will they wait for an Obama or just throw up their hands and figure the US is a yahoo country not to be trusted?
and then there is the example of a president deliberately trying to create dissension in the USA. can the deplorables be shamed into being quiet again? Or has trump let them out of the bottle and they aren't going back until they wear brown shirts and kill even more jews?
Trump is trying to ensure we become the UK of this century.
agip wrote:
Trump of July wrote:
Just wait until Trump takes over the 4th of July and turns into a mega-rally about himself. He slapped tariffs on Chinese fireworks, which means that 95% of the fireworks usually sold to the US for the holiday will not be available. Trump is planning on taking over the Yuge Washington Mall fireworks show so he can give a "speech". Plenty of fireworks will be available for the Trump of July show … likely a lot more fireworks than normal.
$10 says an exception will be made and the fireworks will show up, untariffed.
but if I were the Chinese, I'd put massive slowdowns on the fireworks shipments, so they arrive on July 5th. That would get he country's attention.
It is rather too late to make a tariff exception for fireworks.
Trump "moved" the 4th of July fireworks launch from The Mall to Est Potomac Park nearby.
He know he can't fill The Mall with Trump supporters so he is having it at the golf course near by.
There will be a simultaneous Capitol Fourth concert by the Capitol.
Trump will take credit for that crowd even though it is a separate event.
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