Laura Muir 5000m in 14:49.12!! INDOORS

It's January 4th and she runs a record in a no-name meet! She can't perform to her 'ability' at championships but instead picks and chooses meets during the year to avoid the detection window, coming to and from isolated training locations for big performances. Many athletes do this, ask Conte, ask Aden, ask Heredia, ask anybody who knows the game. Newsflash: just because she's a white girl doesn't make her "strong" or "tenacious" or "courageous" or anything because of her performances. LOL you guys don't understand how hard 3:55 is and how many women doped to their gills have struggled. Oh, but now Muir has "showed the way" and others will follow suit and run really fast times because suddenly magically it can be done. Wrong. It's called drugs and I suspect there's a new erythropoietin on the scene. Just keep saying I'm wrong and illogical and wait till she gets busted. I might just get a bigger laugh outta this than when I told everyone lance was doped or marion jones was a fraud

Laura Muir's coach has a full time job, and can't go to those altitude camps in France and South Africa. So who is looking after her then?

https://cdn.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/fudge.jpg

I suppose you think that Ron Clarke was a doper too.

sent received wrote:

It's January 4th and she runs a record in a no-name meet! She can't perform to her 'ability' at championships but insteablahblahblahblahblah

yea riight wrote:

total doper. I knew it as soon as she popped that 3:55 in paris, but suspected it for a while. when the screws are tightened in big championships she disappears, can't risk the regimen with the doping controls. classical drug user profile IMO sorry just being honest

^

i don't know about that

genze has had injuries since WR & maybe only 3'52/3'53 in rio so not in shape to run stoopid semi & try to run away from Kip

Kip did no serious training after gold, going back home & then celebrating

she probably was in 3'51/3'52 shape in rio but gave it all back to 3'57+ by resumption of euro-meets

only 2 of note are genze & svetlana

very likely doping but she was getting ole by then & that refusal maya been some mix-up with her bodyguards trying to protect her

her run that day was nothing special on the clock at 3'58, when she held 3'52wr, so i doubt there was much to hide, especially in paris, where it was damn rare for eastern bloc to run at, perhaps even some odd protest run by here ?!

she was not favored to win gold that year in '84 if communists had gone

they only ran at zurich in those days, fully geared-up for max performance

there were at least 4 ruskies as good as her in '84 & podkopyeva was the one who wouda won gold in '84, no chance in hell kazankina wouda even made 1500 team

haven't considered 3k that year, but kazankina had shot there

it's not relevant

tirunesh/defar/ayana were/are all capable of 3'50 & Kip 3'51/3'52

all that counts is 0 +ve test

no

0

unfortunately your grasp of math seems cursory

it does not matter if or not you doped or how much you doped, there will still be a mathematical 400 / 800 / 1k / 1500.../ 3k / 5k / 10k line of fit for you providing you are proficient at some of the range

doping does nothing to math

you still have line of fit but just altered

wang was 1500 - 10k

canova tells us she was no better than 55.5 for 400 but her 10k off jog to 5k was probably 29'00 - 29'10 at even pace

work out what

54.5 / 29'00 - 29'10

is for 800 / 1500 / 3k / 5k ?

this offers nothing

ramzi was stuffed to the gills with CERA in '08

there is no vid anywhere of his outrageous 3'32+ prelim in '08, or you coud help a lot for credibility by finding it again, but anyone who saw it, wouda been shocked as on here :

summed up most succintly/eloquently by this :

Watching Ramzi makes my heart sink. Maybe he is clean and is just the most super talented 1500m runner to ever run! When it seems too good to be true it usually is and it makes me so sad to see him out there racing guys that are clean and turning the Olympic 1500m into a freak show. Winning your heat in that weather by 2 seconds in near Olympic record time only to come back 2 days later really is the equivalent of a freak show. I am not saying that him running 3:32 clean isn't possible, but I am saying that him running 3:32 so easily in the first round, knowing that he has 2 more rounds and the 5k left just doesn't speak very softly. F**k that guy, I would punch him in the face is I ever saw him I think. I hope they bust his ass soon

if you didn't see it, he did little more than jog until last coupla 100m & blasted to a 3'32.8

he was stuffed to the gills that day with epo, etc, but he still had line of fit & it was ~

46.25

1'41.50

2'10.50

3'25.62

to

46.00

1'41.25

2'10.28

3'25.57

explain to world why a math program can "fit" him in that epic 3'32+ prelim regardless of being doped or not ???

you need to learn :

doped or not, you will always have a line of fit

whether you use one i do or not, bottom line is that a line of fit will always exist for any serious guy who is good at 2 related gold events

i wish i had taped that incredible 3'32+ prelim to see again

yes, it was stuffed-to-gills with epo, but it exhibited 2 marks within his range, which believe it or not have been matched by coupla guys in noah & bernie in '99 & '01

noah & bernie had same abilty including their kick, in their '99 / '01 peaks as ramzi in '04 !!!

( hicham faster intrinsic 1500 speed but not 800 :

his peak line of fit in '97 or '02 :

~

47.00

1'42.15

2'10.97

3'25.39 )

hicham wouda never broken 1'42 compared to others above

& well, frankly,

walloped into oblivion by a guy from '60s here in intrinsic shape given '70s synthetic, rested fully for 1-off run & fully 100% healthy & no suicidally run prelim earlier on the same soft asphalt off nonsense jog to 660y with huge extra run wide on bends until leading :

agreed. she's a pleasure to watch and appears to put no limits on herself. you can almost see her thinking " I can dig deeper than anyone " she appears to have no fair .

I like to live in la la land and assume most athletes are clean . love the sport too much to think otherwise.

I also hold the stop watch and water bottle for Laura during all training in France, South Africa, Scotland, and Flagstaff, Arizona.

Please do not bring the pudgy Barry Fudge into this conversation. Barry Fudge was a student of crazy Yannis Pitsiladis.

Look at the two photos of Barry Fudge. Look at how much weight he has gained since the 2010 photo. In the later photo he looks like he is fat, pudgy, has insulin resistance and is totally out of shape.

What is Barry's VO2max?

Answer: pathetic

Barry Fudge would not last 10 minutes in our fartlek sessions.

Barry Fudge (UK Director of Brit Endurance??? ha ha ha) is pudgy and totally out of shape.

Calculo can't go one thread without mentioning Jim Ryun, regardless of the topic. Talk about beating a dead horse mate.

As always, you well and truly over estimate the 400m speed of these 1500m athletes. Surprising Ramzi is capable of 1:41.25-50 never broke 1:44.0 - I'd give him 1:43.0 at best and no quicker than 47.5

Back to the topic, great run by Laura...just hope she isn't going to hard in the winter and ends up injured for summer.

calculo wrote:

All of the women ahead of her on the all-time list are suspicious

only 2 of note are genze & svetlana

You can't be serious.

2 3:50.46 Qu Yunxia CHN 25.12.72 1 Beijing 11.09.1993

3 3:50.98 Jiang Bo CHN 13.03.77 1 Shanghai 18.10.1997

4 3:51.34 Lang Yinglai CHN 22.08.79 2 Shanghai 18.10.1997

5 3:51.92 Wang Junxia CHN 09.01.73 2 Beijing 11.09.1993

6 3:52.47 Tatyana Kazankina RUS 17.12.51 1 Zürich 13.08.1980

7 3:53.91 Yin Lili CHN 11.11.79 3 Shanghai 18.10.1997

8 3:53.96 Paula Ivan ROU 20.07.63 1 Seoul 01.10.1988

9 3:53.97 Lan Lixin CHN 14.02.79 4 Shanghai 18.10.1997

11 3:54.23 Olga Dvirna RUS 11.02.53 1r1 Kiev 27.07.1982

12 3:54.52 Zhang Ling CHN 13.04.80 5 Shanghai 18.10.1997

13 3:55.0 Tatyana Kazankina RUS 17.12.51 1 Moskva 06.07.1980

14 3:55.01 Lan Lixin CHN 14.02.79 1h2 Shanghai 17.10.1997

15 3:55.07 Dong Yanmei CHN 16.02.77 6 Shanghai 18.10.1997

18 3:55.33 Süreyya Ayhan-Kop TUR 06.09.78 1 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

19 3:55.38 Qu Yunxia CHN 25.12.72 2h2 Shanghai 17.10.1997

20 3:55.47 Zhang Ling CHN 13.04.80 3h2 Shanghai 17.10.1997

21 3:55.60 Süreyya Ayhan-Kop TUR 06.09.78 1 Zürich 15.08.2003

22 3:55.68 Yuliya Chizhenko RUS 30.08.79 1 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006

23 3:55.82 Dong Yanmei CHN 16.02.77 4h2 Shanghai 17.10.1997

I'd believe Dibaba was clean before I'd believe that any of these athletes were. Which is seriously saying something given that her coach was caught with a mountain of EPO.

I don't think it's unreasonable to make the assumption that certain PEDs will seriously skew any predictive trendlines. EPO increases the oxygen carrying capacity of red blood cells; I assume it has a much higher impact on the endurance end of the spectrum than the speed side, and you'll see trends of the sort you would not see in a clean athlete.

No Man is a wrote:

http://www.britishathletics.org.uk/media/news/news-archive-pre-2011/may-2010/14-05-10-altitude-camp/

This is Barry Fudge in 2010.

No Man is a wrote:

Laura Muir's coach has a full time job, and can't go to those altitude camps in France and South Africa. So who is looking after her then?

https://cdn.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/fudge.jpg

Look at Barry Fudge now!

What happened to Barry Fudge?

Barry is lazy.

Barry just let himself get pudgy and out of shape.

rjm33 wrote:

Please do not bring the pudgy Barry Fudge into this conversation. Barry Fudge was a student of crazy Yannis Pitsiladis.

Barry Fudge (UK Director of Brit Endurance??? ha ha ha) is pudgy and totally out of shape.

And Yanni was giving EPO to athletes in a study.

"19 trained men received rHuEpo injections of 50 IU•kg−1 body mass every two days for 4 weeks. Hbmass was determined weekly using the optimized carbon monoxide rebreathing method until 4 weeks after administration. O2 max and 3,000 m time trial performance were measured pre, post administration and at the end of the study.

Results

Relative to baseline, running performance significantly improved by ∼6% after administration"

Did Barry produce any studies using EPO?

Of course EPO doesn't work on the mutant oxygen grabbers.

Hey, how come those mutant oxygen grabbers who were born and lived their entire lives at altitude, could not beat Ramzi the CERA man?

Maybe Yannis can design a study at the Dead Sea with Ramzi the CERA man.

Of course wrote:

Total doper progression

3:55 at 23

3:58 at 22

4:00 at 21

4:07 at 20

4:14 at 19

That's the classic doper progression right there. Steady progression over 5/6 years as a talented teenager through to a top senior athlete. Only dopers continually improve. All the clean athletes get stuck at Letsrun defined standards, which is generally a touch slower than what a particular Letsrunner managed himself.

+1

I love the fact that there was no one there to watch it. Makes it more pure. Woman v. Clock.

Great run.

https://twitter.com/LVY14/status/816732589239234560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

calculo wrote:

he was stuffed to the gills that day with epo, etc, but he still had line of fit & it was ~

46.25

1'41.50

2'10.50

3'25.62

to

46.00

1'41.25

2'10.28

3'25.57

explain to world why a math program can "fit" him in that epic 3'32+ prelim regardless of being doped or not ???

Also yeah 3:55 seems less phenomenal if you're using theoretical lines of fit based on made up times (and who cares about El G's 3:26? We've obviously had dozens of guys capable of 3:25!). Also, how did you get this trendline? Are you basing it off percentage change between world record times? Some other metric? How can you claim to know the slope at any point of a trendline that is going to be unique to each specific athlete?

Cool!

Outside of Africa, the rest of the world has been underperforming in the 5K indoors and outdoors. 14:49 should be achievable by a 4:25 strength based miler.

Yanni Pitsiladis also did a study to see if giving distance runners 16 oz. of heavy cream before a marathon race would improve performance by increasing fat burning to spare muscle glycogen.

How did that study work out?

Answer: It did not work out.

That EPO study also does not count for Renato or rekrunner because it was probably done with subjects who were considered "well trained" by the scientists…but were actually pudgy out of shape Brits, which is why there was a 6% performance improvement.

In elite athletes, the performance improvement might be 2 to 3%, which would be about 5 seconds per mile, 15 to 20 seconds in a 5k, and 30 to 40 seconds in a 10K. This could bring Genzebe down from 3:55 to 3:50.

I know about your fancy carbon monoxide rebreathing method:

http://www.hypo2sport.com/total-hemoglobin-mass-testing-the-gold-standard/

I also know all about pudgy and out of shape Brit runners.

An excellent example is Sir SlowMoâ„¢:

https://www.facebook.com/hypo2/photos/a.181731141864880.32731.154386924599302/999936883377631/?type=3&theater