Track and Xc Goals

tldr

Yes you can, slowly build up to 50-60mpw then start workouts. Work on your hate flow, and run 2x a day. Ill say 4:10 is reaching but i thing 4:17 is a better goal. Read Jack Daniels Running Formula you can find a pdf and learn how to train

Actually I was very similar to you after my sophomore year in xc. I ran 18:40. I ran 800-2:22

1600-5:27 3200- 11:27. I did 50 mpw the summer after and ran 19:00 off of just base training. Then my coach decreased my mileage in half in season and I only got down to 18:50. Track was 2:15, 5:11 and 11:20. This year I only got 30 mpw in the summer. Opened in 20:30 and was really pissed. Doubled the rest of the way through the season. 2-3 times a week. Got around 45 mpw with 9 mile long run. Ran 17:51 for a huge pr, season best till that point was 18:30. If you keep increasing mileage I think you can get around 17:30. 16:xx might be a bit of a stretch for next year, but definitely by senior year.

You're goals are awesome and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

With that in mind, though, I would suggest tabling them a little bit. Like, don't focus on them too hard. Like Kid from somewhere said, put the training in. Stay relaxed about it and just run. Keep track of your miles, but don't chase weekly totals. Run easy most of the time, but do some tempos, progressions, hills, and strides. Good things will happen.

I haven't forgotten about this thread, winter track started yesterday. I took the past 2 and a half weeks off. Yesterday we pretty much had an introduction to winter track, and then we ran 2 miles. I did the 2 miles in about 16 minutes (nobody was really running it, me and my friend finished first). Today we focused on how we stretch during track and did that for about have an hour. Then we had two 20 minute circuits, one was strength exercises, pushups, lunge walks, jackhammer situps etc. After that I ran for 17 minutes and did 2.2 miles (2 laps of the circuit we were running.) Again, I led my group as varsity is sitting out the next week because of running at Xc groups this past week.

I've been feeling absolutely terrible yesterday and today. I feel very out of shape and in both runs which were both around 8:00 pace, I was breathing very heavily, especially today. I feel like I have never been in this bad shape. Its amazing how 3 weeks ago I ran a 18:51 5k, and now I can't even run 2 miles.

I'll update this in a few weeks on how my training is going. My 1st meet is december 19th, not sure what to expect in my 1st meet when I race the 1600/3200

I'm not going to tell you your goals are too far of a reach. I will tell you that it is more likely that you won't get them, than it is that you will.

BUT, don't let that be a deterrent. Work hard and get the most out of your body that you can. Maybe you run a little slower than you'd like but you still drop a lot of time, keep your head up and don't stop grinding. A PR is a PR. Running takes time and even if it seems like you aren't dropping time, you kid hit a major breakthrough the next month, so don't give up. Stay consistent.

Now on to training.

You took 2.5 weeks off, it's gonna feel tough to run for the first week or two, don't sweat it. I'm assuming you have practice 5 days a week for indoor, so jsut listen to your coaches and try to get in some extra miles where you can fit. If you really want to get better start adding some doubles. As many days as you can. Even if its just 2-3 miles extra in the mornings, that's almost 15 a week right there, let alone practice, and it should help you recover and feel better after you get consistent at doubling. I'm assuming you're doing some lifting, plyos, curcuit stuff or something with the team, so thats good. If not, lift/at least do a lot of core.

The primary way for you to get better is to run more mileage.

The next two things is to do some good quality strides after 2-3 easy days a week, and run more steady state/tempos.

Strides can be anything from 50-100m, pretty fast. Make sure you're warmed up first. It's okay to do the first one or two slow to get loosened up.

I always do them at the end of runs so i'm nice and warmed up. You want to build up so that by the end of the stride, you're running near top speed, while remaining relaxed. No arm flailing, no head bobs or over striding. Fast, and relaxed. Do 4-6 of these 2-3 times a week and that will be plenty.

Tempos is a word that gets abused a lot, but basically just call it anything faster than easy runs. Based off your 5k PR, your tempo pace could be anywhere from 6:20-7:00 pace. Running more at these paces will help you build a crazy aerobic base. You don't have to hammer 2-3 miles at 6:30 pace every time you tempo, though. You will probably see more benefit from running a longer tempo at 6:50-7:10 or so pace. And don't fret about the paces, they are simply there to guide you, not dictate every run.

Recovery is something else I should mention. If you feel really good on an easy day, go ahead and run it at 6:50 pace, but if you aren't feeling great, then go ahead and run slow. On your non workout days, it is probably better to run slower than you think you should tbh. Your easy pace should probably be between 7:30-8:10 depending on how you're feeling. Even slower if you just feel plain old crappy some days. Basically what I'm trying to say is that even though running more miles at tempo will make you better, make sure you are recovering, because injury is much much worse than slightly under training.

As a side note, I was a 21 minute 5k runner and 2:38 800m my freshman year of highschool. 17:40 and 2:15 my senior year of high school.

16:30 and 2:02 my junior year of college and finally finished my college career with PRs of 15:40 and 1:52 in the 800m (I was admittedly an 800m runner, but didn't know it until senior year).

So just stay consistent and motivated. I'd be glad to answer any questions. I'm not a coach but most of my major improvements were because of things I learned and did for myself, so I have a basic idea about what I'm talking about.

Hey guys, so its been about 2 weeks since I've updated the thread. Last week, I was still feeling pretty out of shape on easy runs, and we had a 5 mile normal run. Me and 3 others (there 5k times are (17:01,17:04,18:54) started off relatively fast, and just kep building on it. It was supposed to be an easy run but i guess we just felt good, because we ran 5 miles at ~6:40 average pace (which is pretty good for us, considering we don't do really any fast runs during xc). Today we also had a bit of a track workout. 6 mins tempo, 3mins recovery, 5 mins tempo, 2.5 mins recovery, 4 mins tempo, 2 mins recovery etc. The first 6 mins we did exactly a mile, and each tempo got slightly faster, although I died out on the third when we hit around a 5:00 pace for a brief lap. The average tempo pace was probs around 5:45, the recovery was a very slow ~9:00. I didn't feel that graat during the workout since I couldn't stick with the pack, but then again they are all ~4:30-4:50 milers, so I'm not that bummed. My 1st meet is probably december 19th, although we might only have varsity run. I'll update you guys within the next 2 weeks, thanks for following!

P.S. I'm going to register a name in a few minutes...

The biggest thing for you is to drop your coach. I was in a similar situation: I had terrible xc coaches. I don't know about your track coach, but mine is exceptional. I had a decent, although lackluster freshman year((improved from 20:01 to 18:34), and didn't do track. The next year I improved to 18:01, and ran 4:57 and 10:40 under my track coach. Junior year I didn't PR at all in XC because I ran a lot of base miles over the summer but my XC coach had me drop from 60 mpw to 20 the first week of school, so I kind of had a mediocre peak the second weak of the season and never beat 18:04. That winter I ran a lot of miles, but my track coach kept me at ~45 mpw the entire season and I went 4:48 and 10:08. This past summer I ran ~65 mpw, but at the beginning of the season I sat down with my xc coaches and basically said that I needed to train by myself and that whether or no they let me was the difference between me running 16:00 and 18:00, and they caved. I got workouts sent to me by my track coach and averaged ~50 mpw and went from 17:34 to 16:22 over the course of the season, and I time trialed a 9:58 before state. I'm currently looking to break 9:20 and 4:20, but I'd be surprised if I couldn't go faster. I'm still nowhere near fast, but I improved a ton from dropping by failed XC coaches.

What's with the encouragement of these high school kids to do heavy mileage? My pb's by no means were amazing in high school: 4:15 1500m and 16:47 5k but that was off of 25-30 miles a week. No I was not a lazy runner in high school, our coach believed in quality over quantity back then but I had tons of room to develop the mileage into the later years of college. All I'm saying is don't go crazy with these 60-70+ mile weeks in high school it's totally unnecessary at your level and you will have little to no room to develop in college/ many injuries to soon knock on your door.

So the past few weeks have been pretty good. 3 days ago we did a tempo run. The first mile was easy ~8:00, then we did 2.8 miles at 5:55 pace, which is faster than my 5k. I finished about 15 seconds behind them, so mine was more like 6:01 pace, still better than my 5k pr, and it was 25 degrees out. Yesterday, we ran indoors. Today we had the option of indoors or outdoors, 3 others and I chose outdoors. We did 5.1 miles at 7:23 pace. My 1st meet is monday, and I'm running the 1600m. Not sure what to expect, this will be my first time running indoors. This meet is the Spiked Shoe Holiday Festival at the New Balance Track and Field Center, and I hear its a pretty big meet. A little nervous to be racing again!

P.S. This is my new registered name

theygoforever wrote:

What's with the encouragement of these high school kids to do heavy mileage? My pb's by no means were amazing in high school: 4:15 1500m and 16:47 5k but that was off of 25-30 miles a week. No I was not a lazy runner in high school, our coach believed in quality over quantity back then but I had tons of room to develop the mileage into the later years of college. All I'm saying is don't go crazy with these 60-70+ mile weeks in high school it's totally unnecessary at your level and you will have little to no room to develop in college/ many injuries to soon knock on your door.

Ummm someone who gets to 18:47 off decent mileage probably doesn't have what it takes to need to worry about "saving himself" for college.

Whatever you do don't get discouraged

^

SWAZ, I started a thread called "freshie 1600 time" and if you read it, you will see I am in a somewhat similar situation. How do you go about "...drop[ping] your coach"?

Today I ran a 1600m at my 1st meet in the armory @nyc. I ran a 5:18. I wasn't really sure what to expect, this was my 1st time running indoors. I didn't feel that bad besides that breathing indoors is alot harder, and so is passing people. Next time I'll try to be cautious and try not be boxed. Overall, it was only 7 seconds off an outdoor pr, and I'm not really conditioned for racing a short distance like the 1600m. I hope I can run mid ~4:50s although to get a letter I'll need a 4:50. My next race is 1/6, I'll update in about a week.

hi

TNE wrote:

Today I ran a 1600m at my 1st meet in the armory @nyc. I ran a 5:18. I wasn't really sure what to expect, this was my 1st time running indoors. I didn't feel that bad besides that breathing indoors is alot harder, and so is passing people. Next time I'll try to be cautious and try not be boxed. Overall, it was only 7 seconds off an outdoor pr, and I'm not really conditioned for racing a short distance like the 1600m. I hope I can run mid ~4:50s although to get a letter I'll need a 4:50. My next race is 1/6, I'll update in about a week.

Keep on doing what you know you need to do. Mileage, tempos, etc. Keep racing and I'm sure your times will continue to drop. Maybe race an 800 or 3200 to switch things up. I've found that doing over distance work (and races) has helped me race better at shorter distances.

To what you said, I'm running the anchor for my 4x800 on 1/6, so I'll see what I run then.

The past few days have been going well. 2 days ago we had a 5 mile run which included 6 hill repeats that totaled to about 2.3 miles. Yesterday, we had an easy day, ran about 5 miles at ~7:45 pace. Today we had a tempo run. 1.5 mile at easy pace, 3.1 at tempo (about 6:10, lots of hills), and about a 1 mile easy pace to finish. After I did 2 cooldown laps on the track. Overall the past few days have been pretty good. Feels good that 7:45 pace is now considered relatively easy. I'm on break now, so I'll probs update you guys alot next week. I feel like I'm arguably in the best shape I've ever been in, despite what my 1st race shows. I've also been lifting 3x a week, and doing abs about 3x per week. I think those will both help tremendously by the end of the season.

The past week has been pretty good. We've had a few easy runs and 2 workouts. On Tuesday, we had a 8x400m workout w 2 min rest. Our coach wanted us all to hit 68 for each, which was clearly unrealistic, considering our prs in the mile range from 4:35-5:35, our 400s between 51-75. Anyway, my times were as follows:

69,70,72,72,77,77,76,72

Overall, I felt terrible during the workout, I thought it was the hardest one I've ever done.

Today we had another workout, 5x600 w 3 min rest on turf (since our track was icy)

My times were:

2:02, 1:59, 2:02, 2:03, 2:01.

This workout didn't feel that hard, the times weren't that great but the fastest anyone ran was 1:50. I felt pretty good during this workout.

Not exactly sure how these times are looking considering I want to run ~2:20, 4:50, 11:00 this winter.