Yeah, the 4/6 is sort of where I plan on heading. Although it is difficult running at 5 a.m. when it is very cold. That being said, did another 2 easy-2 tempo-2 easy and felt a whole lot better than last week. 6:21/6:15 for the harder portion and could have gone more.
Another week down, 45 miles in the books. Did 10 today in 68:25. My proposed schedule for this week is as follows:
M- 6
T- am 3
pm 5
W- 7 (middle 3 @ 6:15-6:30 pace_
Th- 6
F- am 3
pm 5
Sat- ????? (Was planning on 10 but I am thinking of changing this to 8 or so to not tax myself too much before Tuesday's race)
Sun- Off
M- 5
T- 1 mile RACE
Any thoughts on Friday?
Sorry, meant Saturday..Should I go with 10 or 8 or does it not even matter?
I've decided to go 8 miles very comfortably this morning instead of 10. I did a 7 miler on Wednesday and in the middle went 18:52 for 3 miles. Felt solid but my calves are sore. 3 days until my 1st mile. Ran 4:52 here last year (was at a different point in the training cycle though). Would be happy with anything under 4:55
xcmets wrote:
I've decided to go 8 miles very comfortably this morning instead of 10. I did a 7 miler on Wednesday and in the middle went 18:52 for 3 miles. Felt solid but my calves are sore. 3 days until my 1st mile. Ran 4:52 here last year (was at a different point in the training cycle though). Would be happy with anything under 4:55
How you gonna run it? I mean like even pace like 75's? Do like your pickups and gear changes your throwing in. Come in rested and fresh for it. Don't hesitate taking a day off here and there. Had an old coach that used to tell me...Ok, in the last lap with 300 to go, want you to imagine that life flight is hovering 30 feet above the ground, beyond the finish line. You are running to life flight. When you hit the finish, the first thing you should realize, is you are in the air being transported by life flight....if that is not happening then you didn't run the damn race hard enough. Actually was fun to imagine that, took some stress off. Good luck!
The track that the race is on is very strange. Imagine a gym floor but smooth rubber. Not at all like the NYC Armory track that I race on sometimes. It is something like 257ish meters, so 6.5 laps to the mile. The quarter mile mark moves so I've got my girlfriend to try and give me splits but as for pacing, its pretty much get out to a good start, file into the pack, if it feels too slow after 800m, push a bit and with 2 laps to go, start really moving. It's super low key but it'll be a good race to establish training paces.
doubles are never worth it if they're cutting into your sleep. start thinking about sleep as something active -- log your sleep -- and be proud of a higher number of hours slept at the end of the week like you are proud of higher mileage.
wetmore doesn't have his guys double because he doesn't think college guys have the time. obviously they could if they woke up earlier, but it isn't worth it.
in addition, stop getting so caught up in the times you run for your long runs/workouts. I ran 23:30 last year for 8k and was running 5:30s-5:40s for most of my progression runs. This is the time to be focusing on mileage. Bringing the intensity too high is to flirt with injury.
xcmets wrote:
Over the next 7 months, it is my goal to break 4:40 for the mile (or equivalent for 1500m) and 17:00 in the 5,000. I know these aren’t super fast, and I also know those two goals don’t match up great, but my PR’s as of now are 4:47 for the mile and 17:33 for a flat road 5k (from 2014). I was very injury prone in the past (compartment syndrome and Achilles tendonitis) age 18-24 and am 25 now. This past (short) season, I averaged around 40-45 miles per week with 3-4 mile tempos, 5x1000m repeats (avg 3:25-3:30 with 3:00 rest) and 12x400m with 45 seconds rest in 78 seconds) and most importantly, no injuries, culminating with a slightly disappointing 17:50 road race.
I want to train based on what I have read and studied in Joe Vigil’s “Road to the Top†and use his mile training plan. I believe I can run a fast 5,000 using this plan, as well as hone my mile speed (of which there is not presently a ton of). My goal would be to peak around 50 miles per week. I am aiming to gradually raise this over the next 2 years or so.
I will also start lifting. Squats and deadlifts should help me in the long run as well as core work 3x per week.
My base phase looks a little like this (with slight variations from week to week including striders):
M- a.m. 4
p.m. 5
T- 2 mi w/u, 5x1000m @ 85% mile speed (3:00 rest), 6x200m accelerations, 2 mi c/d
W- a.m. 4
p.m. 6
Th- 6 miles
F- LT run of 3 progressing to 5 or 6 miles, once every 3 weeks running up to 20 minutes at AT
S- Off
S- 10 miles
My two questions are:
1. Does anyone have any advice regarding my plan (workouts, mileage, Vigil Training, etc. For example, how early to actually start 1000s in base phase and how many to do?)
2. I need 2 meets to go to when I peak in late April/May. I coach HS track so my schedule is a bit limited. I am in New Jersey but am willing to travel a little to find meets to enter so I can get in a fast mile and 5,000. I have found a few potential candidates, but I am looking for more.
Any help would be appreciated!
This might be tricky. Overall, your miles are too low, which is probably why your 5k time suffers. I have a couple questions for you that might be able to help me help you:
1. Are you injured right now?
2. When you were in your best shape, what pace were your tempos?
3. How often do you lift weights?
4. How many reps & sets do you do for weights?
Raineezy- You're definitely right about sleep. I usually get between 7.5 and 8 per night, so I guess I'm pretty good with that. I'm doing less intensity than I was doing this time last year (ex. 3 miles on the track in 17:30-40) but I'm also healthier than I was too. Easy miles are starting to take shape a bit more, especially on my normal distance days. Pretty much settling into a nice groove anywhere between 7:00 and 7:20 depending on how I feel. My plan is to determine training paces based off this mile tomorrow, and then ease my mileage up to near 50 by the end of January. That's about how high I think I'll get this season.
ncaa_d2, ideally, super long term I was thinking:
Spring 2017- Peak at 50 mpw
Summer/Fall 2017- Peak at 55-60 mpw
Spring 2018- 65ish mpw...if I can stay healthy.
To answer your questions:
1. Right now I technically have a torn labrum but it hasn't bothered me in 1.5 years, so that doesn't count. I feel very good.
2. My best shape according to VDOT was last January when I pr'ed in the mile (4:48). My tempos were probably too fast (17:30s and 40s for 12 laps on the track)
3. I try to lift twice per week.
4. Usually do 3x10 deadlifts of 65 lbs and 3x10 squats at 55 lbs. I am pretty weak but I can pump these out without being too too tired. I also try to do core 3x per week.
Thanks for the input, I will write how the race went tomorrow and hopefully, I will have established some decent paces to work with!
Could your girlfriend do something like have a pedometer she is leaning on. As you go by the first split she calls it and rolls out the figured feet to your next split, stops, calls your next split and rolls out figured feet to next split? Just a thought.
I would suggest the opposites. especially since it's a weird track layout, forget the splits entirely. practice racing instead. compete. it's going to be a slow time -- you probably won't PR this early.
A lot of new runners focus too much on running splits and never learn to run by feel and race the competition. If you learn to race, you will run fast or win every time, but if you are a slave to the splits, you won't learn to win races and you'll often blow up because you'll get into your own head.
Here's how focusing too much on splits hurts ya: if you have an expectation of a time that isn't possible that day, then when the time starts to slip away a little -- a second here, a second there -- you inevitably will feel down and tighten up and struggle more than you should.
Very true, and I did in fact practice 'racing' vs 'time trialling'. I was making moves throughout the first half of the race. By the 880, it strung out enough to the point that I basically saw the next guy (a former athlete of mine) ahead of me by about 60 meters and that was it. Definitely struggled the second half of the race and ran 4:57. Was 'reaching' for the line instead of 'kicking'...not sure if that makes sense. (FWIW I seeded myself at 4:55). I think I came in 6th but they aren't posting the results.
Kind of disappointed by this as I ran 4:52 last year, but this was only on 7 weeks of training vs last year when I was around 15 weeks and had already raced quite a bit, so not terrible but I was hoping for a little more.
Things I think I need to work on:
1. More miles...Like many of you said, my mileage is a bit low. After this week, I might bump up to 45-50 mpw and see how that goes (I will try to take my runs easier too)
2. More consistent striders. 6x100m after a run will help with speed.
3. As I enter the end of my base phase, I want to begin incorporating intervals at 85% of mile pace (4xmile, 5x1000m, 6x800m)
4. Tempos- Each week I think I will do a Tempo averaging about my mile pace+80s for 3 and gradually, up to 5 (hopefully) miles. Every third week, I want to try running at mile pace+60s but this will have to be controlled and definitely not more than 3 miles (at this point).
5. Lifting
Am I missing anything? Thank you for all the feedback! A couple more weeks of base before I start Phase 2.
Well totally disagree with pretty much all of what has been said here. Although I didn't realize he was trying to race guys at this stage. For some reason I thought he was running it on his own. I know the track he's on, been training guys on the exact type track in Utah for years. This guy should be sub 4:57! No doubt about it. If this was going to be a race you should have known darn well what you were going to run. At this stage. "If you learn to race, you will run fast or win everytime." "If you run splits you won't learn to win races. What! I must have been living on another planet for the last half century. You should know exactly how your gonna feel thru a certain split. Ah forget it, this is a waste of time. This is my last post here. I know this. If I was working with you,we would have you blasting thru the 4:40's in 3 weeks. Good luck.
To be fair, I was only off what I realistically believed I could run by 2 seconds haha. I've got about 4.5 months to shave off 18 seconds. I think that is reasonable and that my PR is only 8 seconds off of my goal.
keepsimple11 wrote:
Well totally disagree with pretty much all of what has been said here. Although I didn't realize he was trying to race guys at this stage. For some reason I thought he was running it on his own. I know the track he's on, been training guys on the exact type track in Utah for years. This guy should be sub 4:57! No doubt about it. If this was going to be a race you should have known darn well what you were going to run. At this stage. "If you learn to race, you will run fast or win everytime." "If you run splits you won't learn to win races. What! I must have been living on another planet for the last half century. You should know exactly how your gonna feel thru a certain split. Ah forget it, this is a waste of time. This is my last post here. I know this. If I was working with you,we would have you blasting thru the 4:40's in 3 weeks. Good luck.
Got 3 HS girls on my team, two juniors and one senior just ran 4:58, 5:02 and 5:04 indoor solo together in training. All three are not running 30 a week yet. Of course they just came thru at 2:30, racing is five weeks away.
You should get a 4xmile team together! Ran 10 today with the kids I coach. Felt very easy and relaxed. Huge difference in effort between a 69:00 10 miler and a 73:00 10 miler! There is a meet I want to enter in about 2 weeks. They offer an 800m and a 3000m. I'm leaning towards the 800m because there's an indoor 5000m in a month from now and I figure that it might be a good idea to get a faster race under my belt before my first attempt at the 5000m. Any thoughts?
About to bump mileage up to 45 mpw with a tempo and a workout each week. Workouts for January include 800s, 1000s and 1600s at 85% of my 4:57 mile from the other day (5:48 mile pace for workouts which seems slow but I guess that is the point in base phase)
Hey sorry to slightly hijack your thread, but I'm curious, how did you get over the compartment syndrome? Did you have the surgery?
I probably have it, pressures came back elevated but barely over the cutoff, and am considering the surgery.
Not hijacking at all. I got the pressure test (4 compartments were tested) and it came back positive with the highest pressure being in my left leg, posterior compartment. It was 57 mmhg (milimeters of mercury is the measurement) with the right leg coming in at 46 mmhg. Hurt terribly. But the surgery helped big time, haven't had a problem with it since. Be sure to find a good doctor. I had all 4 compartments released and my orthopedist gave me two other minor operations as well, all worth it. Best of luck!
Dude quit with the doubles. You'll benefit more from a 9 miler than a 4 and a 5.