Is Eliud Kipchoge on the juice?

El Keniano wrote:

Clerk wrote:

We know Kenyans of the highest level have chosen to dope. We know that support staff for Kenyans of the highest level have facilitated doping.

Examples? Else please do humanity a favour by killing yourself.

Must have hit pretty close to the mark to get you all riled up like this.

Clerk wrote:

..... To repeat: It is up to you to decide if Kipchoge's work ethic and talent is enough to out-do other elite athletes who are doping (its not). It's up to you to decide if an athlete can maintain his performance level without doping (no one can). ...

So you feel Kipchoge didn't dope thru the latter 200x's, and the early 201x's, but then started up (again) when he began marathoning?

So essentially, what you're saying is that there can be no 'best-of-the-best'. Your argument makes no sense in the larger context and in view of the history of sport. There have always been great athletes who consistently outperformed. Think of other superstars:Wayne GretzkyMichael JordanBabe RuthTiger WoodsRoger FedererLionel MessiAll dopers by your argument, because how could they maintain their performance level against other 'elite' athletes without some drug.

Clerk wrote:

felix savon wrote:

...We all know that there is corruption and cheating in Kenya.

Not everyone. Doping deniers and apologists often refuse to acknowledge this reality.

felix savon wrote:Let's repeat the line above a hundred times.

There is not only no way to know. There is no way to know. There is...

There is no way to know, but there are ways to draw conclusions from the available evidence. To repeat: It is up to you to decide if Kipchoge's work ethic and talent is enough to out-do other elite athletes who are doping (its not). It's up to you to decide if an athlete can maintain his performance level without doping (no one can). It's up to you do look beyond the direct evidence, and know that performance level and anti-doping context of the science and NADO are valid evidence to make a conclusion.

Mope Dealer wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Examples? Else please do humanity a favour by killing yourself.

Must have hit pretty close to the mark to get you all riled up like this.

It irritated me alright. But for him to refer to it a "death threat"? Just wow! I'm giving Clerk aka Zane Robertson a wide berth from now on going forward. We could be dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic and I'm not looking to have cops knocking at my door in the near future.

PS. The IOC confirmed John Anzrah resisted the test, attempted to identify himself and, most importantly, did not give out a sample as claimed in the media. But those are just mere details that get in the way of the narrative that a 61 year old man would impersonate a 28 year old Olympic athlete in his prime. Common sense really isn't that common.

I'd have refuted each of his other points but I'm, admittedly, a little taken aback right now. People here are nuts.

Another John Anzrah link to lighten things up. But the certifiable amongst us really should get help.

http://fittish.deadspin.com/kenyan-coach-learns-the-hard-way-that-theres-no-free-lu-1785213883

Rupp must have read this and made sure to slow down in the last quarter mile.

Not reliable wrote:

According to Cycling News Doping Forum, 2:10 is the limit of humans, and beyond that it is the Dope Zone.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2006133#p2006133

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

Well put.

Devil Dog wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Examples? Else please do humanity a favour by killing yourself.

How about recently for example?

John Anzrah taking bribes for advanced notice for drug tests.

A training center in Iten being caught on camera with EPO.

Agent Frederico Rosa being charged with supplying his athletes with EPO.

Doctors caught on camera offering EPO injections for $100.

Etc

30 Kenyan positive tests in recent years...

30!

a walk in the clouds wrote:

Devil Dog wrote:

How about recently for example?

John Anzrah taking bribes for advanced notice for drug tests.

A training center in Iten being caught on camera with EPO.

Agent Frederico Rosa being charged with supplying his athletes with EPO.

Doctors caught on camera offering EPO injections for $100.

Etc

30 Kenyan positive tests in recent years...

30!

Bunch of nobodies other than two or three. This out of thousands. And the "recent" thing is getting more distant by the day. Short spurt nipped in the bud. We haven't had new positives in a while.

El Keniano wrote:

Else please do humanity a favour by killing yourself.

admittedly, a little taken aback right now. People here are nuts.

Clerk made an excellent and informative post. Its ok for you to try and dispute it.

But you tell Clerk to "do humanity a favor by killing yourself".....then you say the people here are nuts.

Do you see the irony in that?

Conundrum wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Else please do humanity a favour by killing yourself.

admittedly, a little taken aback right now. People here are nuts.

Clerk made an excellent and informative post. Its ok for you to try and dispute it.

But you tell Clerk to "do humanity a favor by killing yourself".....then you say the people here are nuts.

Do you see the irony in that?

But honestly, a "death threat"? Seriously?

Kawauchi has run 2:08. There's no way he's doping.

Kilometer splits, not miles.

stat nerd wrote:

Are the splits per mile of the marathon posted somewhere?

What pace did he run the last 8 miles?

Hey Mr. Clerk

Very well done.

I did not remember Ms. Asiago. Do you know what she was positive for…anabolic steroids…or EPO?

Here is Patrick Sang, who is a coach at the GSC camp, at the gala for Jos Hermens:

It is the 30 year of anniversary of Jos Hermens and GSC.

I heard a rumour that Lord Sebastian Coe of Monte Carlo got a little tipsy that night. There was a lot of drinking going on at that gala…and at this other gala…

Good times.

I saw this race live in the stadium, mind blowing. Right up there with the Queen and Duke driving past my house and waving (I don't live in the UK).

what's deal with Kipchoge? wrote:

Any insight into this?

What makes you post such garbage? Accusing people with no evidence

I accuse you of being an idiot

Hey Clerk,

looks like two classes:

a) the 400m-type, and

b) marathoner-type

Not many in between which means either:

a) They're all clean super-freaks or

b) The main athletes aren't being tested/caught.

Tomato, orange, apple, pomegranate?

Mope Dealer wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Examples? Else please do humanity a favour by killing yourself.

Must have hit pretty close to the mark to get you all riled up like this.

Please tell me LRC isn't turning into Star Wars fan page!