what a guy wrote:
Does Torrence "stand by" having the thread on his bizarre sudden progression taken down?
Sourest grapes in Rio. When he doesn't make the final it will be clear why he had to secretly scam nationalities to go.
He also learned how to dope from an expert coach, then bolted away claiming he would "never" dope. His sudden progression, and recent times, proves he knows exactly what PEDs to take, and how much.
wejo wrote:
I asked Torrence about his rant on Lagat at the Olympic Trials and he stood by them and said a lot of athletes had thanked him for saying them. Torrence also said since he runs for Peru now, he sees things differently than a lot of Americans.
It was a rant. Envy and jealousy. Rupp took himself out of the last lap, and a kick finish is always in Lagat's wheelhouse. Lagat is a hall of fame runner and even at 40+ he keeps showing his bloody mettle. Torrence spouting off was a jealous little rant and I don't who these "a lot of athletes" thanking him are, but I have't talked to them.
About Peru. David is 30 years old. He only just became a citizen there. He has stated that he always wanted to run for Peru. Doesn't add up.
What irks me most is this comment he made in Gault's interview:
David Torrence said:
I know a lot of people credit a lot of America’s resurgence to Bernard Lagat coming over to the U.S., having to compete against him and raise their game to try and dethrone him. So hopefully I can go to Peru and not just race them and beat them, but I want to help bring those guys to my level and beat me if they can. I’d love it to train someone out there and get them to attain levels that they wouldn’t have otherwise.
This was made before his OT rant. DT implies he wants to become the Bernard Lagat of Peru. The thing with that...Lagat moved to the USA in '96 to attend university and he got married, started a family, and was naturalized in '05. Bernard Lagat has called the USA home for twenty years.
Bernard Lagat is sublime. David Torrence is jealous.
http://wsm.wsu.edu/ourstory/index.php?title=Bernard_Lagat_comes_homeAussie Green and Gold wrote:
Bernard Lagat has called the USA home for twenty years.
Lagat has provided a lot of samples that have been tested. More samples by far than slow 1500m runner Torrence. No positive test results ever. Botched A is nothing more than someone like Torrence being put in charge of a Lagat sample and tainting it. Twenty years, and nothing ever found. Lagat will go through THIRTY years of testing of his samples--20 years + until he retires + 8 years after he retires.
Imbeciles like Torrence insist that Lagat has paid off the testers. Hundreds of different testers spread out over a period of 20 years, and to grow to 30 years. The moron Torrence will continue to insist that Lagat has managed to bribe all those testers over all those years.
Torres is a pvssy and needs to STFU. Did he give the interview in Incan on top of an Alpaca?
You transferred to Peru because you couldn't hang with AMERICANS!!!!!! You have no more credibility than any of the message board rats here. Enjoy running the first round of the 1500 and watching the 1500 final like the rest of us.
Don't forget Torrence ran for Aden. Never forget.
Manchu Pikachu wrote:
Torres is a pvssy and needs to STFU. Did he give the interview in Incan on top of an Alpaca?
You transferred to Peru because you couldn't hang with AMERICANS!!!!!! You have no more credibility than any of the message board rats here. Enjoy running the first round of the 1500 and watching the 1500 final like the rest of us.
Bernie's Army out in full force here. I guess they'll be on to some other schmo who flows by the time he tests positive and they won't admit how stupid they are acting.
Lots of Samples wrote:
Lagat has provided a lot of samples that have been tested. More samples by far than slow 1500m runner Torrence. No positive test results ever.
Just like Lance!
The era Lagat was competing tells everything. He even could keep up with the dirtiest runner ever, El G.
Huge respect to DT for speaking out.
So2008 wrote:
As he should! The stories about Lagat have been looming around for a long time. I was waiting for someone to open their mouth.
Yeah, for 13 years. Seriously? David Torrence drudging up a false positive from 13 years ago. Like many things over a decade old, people forget the facts and regurgitate only the superficial rumors. Weak sauce Torrence.
You know who was dominating all comers in 2003? El Guerrouj. Lagat was on El G's heels and the Athens final remains as one of the best one-on-one 1500 Olympic finishes we've seen. Then El G retired. It's 12 years later and Lagat is still racing at 5,000m where his pure speed can keep him in medal contention in tactical races.
Lagat was cleared 13 years ago but Torrence thinks it's appropriate to trash a guy who has accomplished a million more things than he has. Lagat, a real Olympic qualifier and medalist. A guy who competed Olympically for his home country as well as his naturalized country.
Below is a link of what happened after the false positive result and after. I really hope everyone snubs Torrence for this. Weak Peruvian sauce.
http://now-thats-amateur.blogspot.com/2005/12/lagat-offered-nothing-says-no-thanks.htmlllort_vbo wrote:
Manchu Pikachu wrote:Torres is a pvssy and needs to STFU. Did he give the interview in Incan on top of an Alpaca?
You transferred to Peru because you couldn't hang with AMERICANS!!!!!! You have no more credibility than any of the message board rats here. Enjoy running the first round of the 1500 and watching the 1500 final like the rest of us.
Bernie's Army out in full force here. I guess they'll be on to some other schmo who flows by the time he tests positive and they won't admit how stupid they are acting.
Hi David. We know exactly how IGNORANT you are.
rozzi wrote:
Lots of Samples wrote:Lagat has provided a lot of samples that have been tested. More samples by far than slow 1500m runner Torrence. No positive test results ever.
Just like Lance!
The era Lagat was competing tells everything. He even could keep up with the dirtiest runner ever, El G.
Huge respect to DT for speaking out.
DT is an asswipe.
Just like Rupp
Just like Centro
Just like Salazar
Just like ________
. . .
Just like every US Athlete, like Lagat, who Never Tested Positive
Incan Peru wrote:
Don't forget Torrence ran for Aden.
Wrong. At best, he was a tail ending also-ran in the group.
Au Contrare wrote:
Incan Peru wrote:Don't forget Torrence ran for Aden.
Wrong. At best, he was a tail ending also-ran in the group.
Torrence was under Aden's coaching for over 2 years. I think it was about 6 months where Aden was coaching DT before he had actually joined the training group in summer '14. It's worth noting that Torrence's move after Cook's retirement was not to stay stateside, but to join an African coach and training group. I think this is a very important fact people need to revisit. The list of US runners choosing foreign coaches and groups is fairly small.
Also, Torrence has always carried a megaphone on the internet and what happened with Aden (how he exploited that for himself) is classic David Torrence. Of US runners, DT has the most prolific digital footprint, and he has ranted on many occasions. This includes his own letsrun anonymous admission.
David Torrence via Reddit wrote:
Yes. I'm debating just coming out and not posting anonymously anymore. I mean, I do it here. Why not just let people know on letsrun?
DT publicly responded to a Tony Reavis article and Reavis has said it showed Torrence to be both disrespectful and ignorant. Similarly, his rant about Lagat showed total disrespect. First, on the humane level. Lagat is a husband and a father. He's also an American Olympian. David Torrence is a loner and his self-self-ostrasizing nature has now cast him outside his own country (again) to Peru.
DT has done this to himself. He doesn't want to apologize or admit he was wrong...what a classless person. If his rant is kosher, than mine here is kosher.
David...
rjm33 wrote:
I was not aware that David Torrence is an expert on EPO testing.
The A sample of Bernard Lagat was tested after 3 days and was initially judged to be positive for synthetic EPO on the gel electrophoresis. The B sample was not refrigerated and was tested after 6 days. It did not match the A sample and showed EPO modifying enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification.
After the B sample did not match the A sample, they looked at the A sample again, and saw that it also showed (to a lesser extent than the B sample since it had been refrigerated and tested after 3 days) subtle EPO modifying enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification. The A sample also did not match the pattern for a positive EPO test on the the gel electrophoresis.
Both A and B samples showed EPO modifying enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification. The enzymatic activity had also altered the controls rhEpo and Nesp.
The key point is that BOTH the A sample and B sample showed evidence of enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification. Both the A sample and the B sample did not match the pattern for a positive EPO test match on the gel electrophoresis.
The controls were recombinant human erythropoietin and Aranesp (darbepoetin alfa), also developed by Amgen, and called Nesp in the article, which means 'novel erythropoiesis stimulating protein'. It is a synthetic EPO which differs from endogenous EPO by containing two more N-linked oligosaccharide chains with the 166-amino acid protein.
It would also of been more difficult in this case for the evil Dr. Martial 'Plan B' Saugy to get the other 4 experts to all conspire with him in his (usually) evil activities. All 5 experts unanimously agreed that that there was no synthetic EPO in either the A sample or the B sample of Bernard Lagat in 2003.
In conclusion:
1) There was not a positive A sample test result or a positive B sample test result for EPO for Bernard Lagat in 2003.
2) The initial false positive A sample test result should never have been made public. No doping test results should be made public until confirmed by a positive B test.
3) There is no basis to use the 2003 test as evidence for doping by Bernard Lagat.
4) David Torrence does not know what he is talking about in reference to the 2003 test of Bernard Lagat.
His evidence consists of..."I have heard multiple rumors".
Those fancy words are great and all, but maybe you should leave a link with an expert explaining this rather than an anonymous message board poster.
The thing that makes me question Lagat's cleanliness the most is, how many guys run faster when they're 40/41 than they do when they're a senior in college?
It's funning because the only one defending Lagat are the hacks that have no clue. Those are more then rumors about Lagat and his cover ups DT speaks about. DT knows it and so do many others in the elite circle. Lagat has learned to keep his mouth shut and knows what he does wrong. DT would not just bring this up for no good reason, just like people didn't call Lance a cheater for no good reason. If anyone cared about the integrity of this sport they would keep an open mind about this issue. We can only hope the truth comes out about Lagat. DT knows what all of us have heard about for years. Hopefully time will get Lagat what he deserves.
rozzi wrote:
Lots of Samples wrote:Lagat has provided a lot of samples that have been tested. More samples by far than slow 1500m runner Torrence. No positive test results ever.
Just like Lance!
The era Lagat was competing tells everything. He even could keep up with the dirtiest runner ever, El G.
Huge respect to DT for speaking out.
The era Lagat competed in really does tell everything. He competed before and after EPO and other substance testings began, and unlike all the Moroccans, Algerians, Russians, various Europeans, and Americans who were found out retroactively, Lagat has stood the test of time. Furthermore, unless I am mistaken, none of Lagat's training partners have been involved in doping scandals, which is more than can be said of Lance Armstrong, El Gerroj, or Torrence. Also, I have never heard of James Li being implicated in any way, which again, is more than can be said of Torrence's coach.
douchelin^3 wrote:
rjm33 wrote:I was not aware that David Torrence is an expert on EPO testing.
The A sample of Bernard Lagat was tested after 3 days and was initially judged to be positive for synthetic EPO on the gel electrophoresis. The B sample was not refrigerated and was tested after 6 days. It did not match the A sample and showed EPO modifying enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification.
After the B sample did not match the A sample, they looked at the A sample again, and saw that it also showed (to a lesser extent than the B sample since it had been refrigerated and tested after 3 days) subtle EPO modifying enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification. The A sample also did not match the pattern for a positive EPO test on the the gel electrophoresis.
Both A and B samples showed EPO modifying enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification. The enzymatic activity had also altered the controls rhEpo and Nesp.
The key point is that BOTH the A sample and B sample showed evidence of enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification. Both the A sample and the B sample did not match the pattern for a positive EPO test match on the gel electrophoresis.
The controls were recombinant human erythropoietin and Aranesp (darbepoetin alfa), also developed by Amgen, and called Nesp in the article, which means 'novel erythropoiesis stimulating protein'. It is a synthetic EPO which differs from endogenous EPO by containing two more N-linked oligosaccharide chains with the 166-amino acid protein.
It would also of been more difficult in this case for the evil Dr. Martial 'Plan B' Saugy to get the other 4 experts to all conspire with him in his (usually) evil activities. All 5 experts unanimously agreed that that there was no synthetic EPO in either the A sample or the B sample of Bernard Lagat in 2003.
In conclusion:
1) There was not a positive A sample test result or a positive B sample test result for EPO for Bernard Lagat in 2003.
2) The initial false positive A sample test result should never have been made public. No doping test results should be made public until confirmed by a positive B test.
3) There is no basis to use the 2003 test as evidence for doping by Bernard Lagat.
4) David Torrence does not know what he is talking about in reference to the 2003 test of Bernard Lagat.
His evidence consists of..."I have heard multiple rumors".
Those fancy words are great and all, but maybe you should leave a link with an expert explaining this rather than an anonymous message board poster.
I think DT is referring to 2008 Lagat cover ups and others that were heard about in the elite world. Don't shoot the messenger when he is just being honest. Do you really think Lagat is clean? Because if you do, it just might come back to bite you in the a@#.
"I think DT is referring to 2008 Lagat cover ups and others that were heard about in the elite world. Don't shoot the messenger when he is just being honest. Do you really think Lagat is clean? Because if you do, it just might come back to bite you in the a@#."
Do you realize that you are making an argument ad ignorantium?
Think before you speak wrote:
Au Contrare wrote:Wrong. At best, he was a tail ending also-ran in the group.
Torrence was under Aden's coaching for over 2 years. I think it was about 6 months where Aden was coaching DT before he had actually joined the training group in summer '14. It's worth noting that Torrence's move after Cook's retirement was not to stay stateside, but to join an African coach and training group. I think this is a very important fact people need to revisit. The list of US runners choosing foreign coaches and groups is fairly small.
Also, Torrence has always carried a megaphone on the internet and what happened with Aden (how he exploited that for himself) is classic David Torrence. Of US runners, DT has the most prolific digital footprint, and he has ranted on many occasions. This includes his own letsrun anonymous admission.
David Torrence via Reddit wrote:
Yes. I'm debating just coming out and not posting anonymously anymore. I mean, I do it here. Why not just let people know on letsrun?
DT publicly responded to a Tony Reavis article and Reavis has said it showed Torrence to be both disrespectful and ignorant. Similarly, his rant about Lagat showed total disrespect. First, on the humane level. Lagat is a husband and a father. He's also an American Olympian. David Torrence is a loner and his self-self-ostrasizing nature has now cast him outside his own country (again) to Peru.
DT has done this to himself. He doesn't want to apologize or admit he was wrong...what a classless person. If his rant is kosher, than mine here is kosher.
David...
Solid post. Can you point to the Toni Reavis article that you referenced?
Bernard Lagat met the love of his life in college. She's been his nutrition advisor for 15 years. God...he represents everything that is good about America. Opportunity. Education. Family. Purpose. Hard Work.
David Torrence should be ashamed of himself. You're 30 David...and have what? Go build your life in Peru buddy...its been a bust here for you in America. DEVASTATED David.
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