How good is Mo Farah compared to the all-time greats?

Bekele and haile only raced those events once or twice. Haile ran 3:31 indoors and definitely could have run faster outdoors in the right race. Haile set the WR in the half marathon and the marathon. Bekele has a dozen cross championships too.

Jimmy Dean wrote:

Bekele has a dozen cross championships too.

Meanwhile, Farah has been beaten by the likes of Garret Heath.

Bad Wigins wrote:

1500: Ryun, Bayi, Nurmi, Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliott, Coghlan, Keino, Aouita, Choge

5000: Viren, Ngugi, Zatopek, Kuts, Aouita, Yifter, Clarke, Rono, Choge, Hägg

10000: Viren, Zatopek, Kuts, Yifter, Kipkoech, Rono, Zatopek, Tergat

besides the standard mentions like KB, Geb, Komen, Lagat, El G and Kiprop.

When you start talking great of all time you have to figure in 50 years when people look back he will blend in with all these people and his golds won't shine so bright, being in relatively dull and/or slow races. So for sure, he's among the pretty good of all time, even if he dopes. Certainly a competitor. But he's no Emil MF Zatopek.

Thanks, this thread was getting a little one dimensional.

usnspecialist wrote:

the same people dont show up for indoors though, and that is an indisputable fact. Also im not sure you can just automatically devalue farah's gold medals in the manner you say because you have to bear in mind the one dramatic difference between the two eras, drug testing. It is a lot easier for a lot of people to run video game times when the testing is virtually non-existent.

No that is not an indisputable fact. Top guys from outdoor also do indoors. If that is indisputable as you say, then how did Farah get 4th at World Indoors? Did the 3 runners in front of him not really exist?

Also, your point doesn't make sense. Because of drug testing, indoors doesn't count???

Testing was not virtually non existent. Bekele was just dominating like 5 years ago. Farah was also competing. They are the same age. They are in the SAME era. Even if there is a difference in testing, that doesn't mean they were using drugs. By your logic, that means Farah was using drugs too and he still couldn't win.

Really, this says it all - Bekele and Farah are the same age. They raced together. Bekele was so dominant that Farah wasn't even noticeable. Now that Bekele and the other top guys have left the track, Farah is the only one remaining from that generation so of course he looks dominant. The event hasn't had any elite talent since 2010ish. It should be clear that Bekele was on another level than Farah.

Farah really has not changed that much since pre 2012. The biggest difference is that all of the better guys retired. Oh and he has the Nike/Salazar hype machine marketing him super well - "Can't run fast times? Well just distract everyone from that by running good times across a wide range of distances. Keep showing off your kick".

I brought up indoors because it showed how Geb had a better range for one, and xc because if you look back Mo ran those races and was non existent. The reason xc isnt as big of deal is because big names don't wanna go out and do it like old days, would mo beat Kam in world xc? Nope, so will he run nope, Simple as that.

Well, Farah actually ran against Bekele in the 2012 Olympics, along with his younger brother. Bekele was 30 at the time and presumably not far off his prime. And obviously Farah won. They also met in 2011 but Kenenisa Bekele was injured.

Would '03 - '09 Bekele have beaten '12 Farah in London? Hard to say. Farah has a better kick than Bekele from that time, and a roughly equal last 800m. The times from the '04 and '08 Olympics were 27:05 and 27:01. I feel like Farah could have potentially hung onto that pace and still had enough to match Bekele's strength over the last 800m and outkick him over the last 100m. It would be close.

If the 10k played out like the World Championships from '03 or '09, then there's little chance Farah wins. Anything sub-27 he'd have a hard time winning. 27:00-27:25 would be hard to call. Anything 27:25+ and I think he almost always wins. Based on their times, I think the 10k World Championships from '05 and '07 and the Olympics from '04 and '08 would have been close between Bekele and Farah today.

Also, runners mature and peak at different ages. Some peak as early as 19-20. Most in their mid 20s, and some in their late 20s, early 30s. Bekele ran his best times when he was in his early 20s, and Farah didn't get really good until his late 20s. It's not that uncommon.

runrunner wrote:

Also, runners mature and peak at different ages. Some peak as early as 19-20. Most in their mid 20s, and some in their late 20s, early 30s. Bekele ran his best times when he was in his early 20s, and Farah didn't get really good until his late 20s. It's not that uncommon.

Not that uncommon, really? Can you name some other runners who went from also-rans to world-beaters in their late 20s?

lopes

And for what ever curious reason were you only factoring outdoor times? Because it's more difficult to run fast on an 200m track than on an 400m track you will not include a mark achieved under more difficult circumstances? Strange.

Gebrselassie's sequence of marks is much more impressive than Farah's.

"If it makes you feel better" - ??? I'm trying to argue about facts, not changing them to "feel better".

For sure it's a strong point for Farah that his weakest mark is ranked higher than Gebrselassie's weakest (and also Bekele's which is 118 over 1500m). He has shown very impressive range in a short period of time. (Also I'm one of those who have little bit of a problem with the Monaco times from the last years - see the other thread from last week. But that's another story.)

Shortly after the World Champs 1995 and 1997, Gebrselassie has set a new WR for 5000m, but for you that's not even worth to be mentioned? Just: he hasn't even tried to double? What do you think he would have achieved if he had just concentrated on the 5000m title in Göteborg in 1995 and not for the WR a few days later? He would have had big problems in beating Kirui, Boulami or Baumann? Well, I don't think so.

To only look at the Nr. of outdoor Gold medals at global champs is laughable. Yes, Farah has more than Gebrselassie and probably will add two more soon, but at the moment he still is behind Gebrselassie also in the championship category, where Gebrselassie can add 4 World indoor titles, a World half-marathon title, two World junior titles. (OK, Farah can add some European titles...)

Farah is nowhere near to Gebrselassie and Bekele in some sort of all-time ranking. And this definitely will not change when he will not go for - and achieve - super fast times over 3000m, 5000m and 10000m.

2008 10,000m 53.42 off a 27:01 pace cruising in the last 50m+ (last K in 2:27)

2012 10,000m 53.48 off a 27:30 pace (last K in 2:28)

2008 5,000m 53.87 off a 12:57 pace celebrated over 100m out (last K in 2:25)

2012 5,000m 52.94 off a 13:44 pace lol (last K in 2:25)

Small sample, I can compare more races, but mo wouldn't out kick Bekele in his prime at all.

2015 10,000m mo closed in 54.15 and a 2:28 last K on a 27:01 pace, best comparison to Bekele's 08.

when you factor in Personal Records, plus championships, I agree that Mo is behind the other guys at this point. I was just arguing that Mo has greater range over the track events (I would ignore marathon at this point since he has only taken 1 shot at it), and that when it comes to championship races Mo is at the same level of those 2 and will likely be more accomplished by this time next month.

I agree that Geb could have likely run better than his 333 outdoors if he wanted to, but I am not at all convinced he could be down in the 328 range like Mo.

What's a 3:31 indoors worth outdoors? 3:31.8 or so to El G's indoor wr 3:31.14, which he did 3:26.00 outdoors, I could see geb doing 3:28s.

I just have to say, the doorbell is just not as good as the panic room. Serena is still GOAT.

usnspecialist wrote:

when you factor in Personal Records, plus championships, I agree that Mo is behind the other guys at this point. I was just arguing that Mo has greater range over the track events (I would ignore marathon at this point since he has only taken 1 shot at it), and that when it comes to championship races Mo is at the same level of those 2 and will likely be more accomplished by this time next month.

I agree that Geb could have likely run better than his 333 outdoors if he wanted to, but I am not at all convinced he could be down in the 328 range like Mo.

I'm pretty sure Gebrselassie couldn't have run 3:28.81 for 1500m. In some way he was destined for running indoors and I believe he could have come close to 3:30 but would not have broken that barrier even when concentrating more on the distance.

Greater range over the track distances? Well, I don't think 5 1/2s in the 3000m, 14s in the 5000m and 24s in the 10000m should be totally ignored. In fact, Gebrselassie has (much) better PBs in any event besides the 1500m: 1 Mile, 2000m, 3000m, 2 Miles, 5000m, 10000m, 10km, 15km, Half-Mar., Marathon.

But again, Farah's better ranking in his weakest event than Gebrselassie's is a strong point for him. Also more global outdoor titles. OK, this makes it something like 2:6.

Samuel DeChamplain wrote:

What's a 3:31 indoors worth outdoors? 3:31.8 or so to El G's indoor wr 3:31.14, which he did 3:26.00 outdoors, I could see geb doing 3:28s.

Fanially, someone with a brain! Geb was fast and ran close to a very good indoor 1500 WR. There's no doubt in my mind Geb could have matched Farah's time on a perfect set-up like Monaco...

People also forget that back in the days Geb and al had to run HEATS in the 10 000m. For exemple, in Atlanta, Geb was scheduled to race the 5 000m but his feet were trashed after two hard 10 000m in a few days. it's a well known fact!

Just look how Geb destroyed Komen over the last 300m in his 12:41 WR run in 1997!

Farah can't challenge this!

Geb would have won any global championship over 5 000m between 1995 and 2000... no doubt about it! But he was too busy running fast, winning Golden (Diamond) League races and smashing WRs!

Nowadays, the 10 000m is a straight final, so it's way easier to double! A fact many of you forget to put in your analyses!

Make this 7 1/2s in the 3000m...

Skeptik wrote:

He's the Terry Bradshaw of distance running. Terrible stats but lots of hardware during a very weak era of track distance running.

El G was a middle distance runner so should be viewed in a seperate catagory. OK he won gold at 5,000m but he didn't do the times over long ditances either

Mo is 3rd best all time behind Geb & Bekele

Any other contender didn't last long enough at top level or get nearly enough titles to be a GOAT

Runners like Zataopek need to be seperated as the era is just too far distant

If only someone had mentioned the 10K straight final thing yesterday. O wait....

Also you mentioned that Geb was focused on running fast and breaking WR's, and that is a crucial distinction between himself and Farah. Farah does not concern himself with records, he chooses to focus on winning championships. Not saying either one is right, but there is definitely a different approach taken. Do I think that he could run in the sub 1240/2625 range that those other guys were, not necessarily. I do think that if he chose to focus on running fast times at possibly the expense of championships, he could take his times down quite a bit however.

Samuel DeChamplain wrote:

2008 10,000m 53.42 off a 27:01 pace cruising in the last 50m+ (last K in 2:27)

2012 10,000m 53.48 off a 27:30 pace (last K in 2:28)

2008 5,000m 53.87 off a 12:57 pace celebrated over 100m out (last K in 2:25)

2012 5,000m 52.94 off a 13:44 pace lol (last K in 2:25)

Small sample, I can compare more races, but mo wouldn't out kick Bekele in his prime at all.

2015 10,000m mo closed in 54.15 and a 2:28 last K on a 27:01 pace, best comparison to Bekele's 08.

you could go back another km for Bekele's 2008 5000m as last 2km was 4:57!