Jeremy Wariner: USA's Best 800m Runner that Never Was

You clearly have no idea what you´re talking about. I hear this stupid argument

all the time: "imagine how easy a 49 first lap must feel to him!" Well, after 600m that pace doesn´t feel easy for anyone. Simple physiology. You should also remember that when he starts doing 800 training he will lose some of his 400 speed.

- I agree that training for the 800 is much different from the 400 given physiology requirements. I would assume that he would train differently.

- That does not mean that Jeremy Wariner does/did not have the talent to move up to the 800 .... particularly when his 400 speed is now in the consistent 45s versus 43s.

- Based on this year's 800 trials to date .... he coulda been a contender.

Interesting quote in one of his interviews after he dropped in the 400m. He said he was going to finish out the season running 400s, and then said he might run some 500s and 600s indoors, and take it from there regarding the outdoor season. He also said that he might try "something new" and left it at that.

- Great News

- Unfortunately, he didn't make that call last Fall for a good work-up

- If he goes for this ... he'll need to commit & I fear GM duties at his Sandwhich Shop on his feet all day aren't congruent to support such a transformation

Lickety Split wrote:

- If he goes for this ... he'll need to commit & I fear GM duties at his Sandwhich Shop on his feet all day aren't congruent to support such a transformation

He'll wear ankle weights while working on his feet all day.

How many elite 800 meter runners have run the 200 meters in under 20.20 as Wariner has?

might i also suggest jarmila kratochvilova? to do what she did at both 400 and 800 metres was both unusual,and freaky.she was the female juantorena,and also a sub 22 second 200 metre runner.

Roads

cali boy wrote:

Lickety Split wrote:

- David Patrick, Harald Schmid, Brandan Johnson, David Rushed

Wariner's run 20.2 for 200--from blocks. That's at least a full second faster than any of those guys. Probably a full second faster than any of them except 2012 Rudisha could do from a running start.

Not all great 400 runners can transition to a longer event; the 400 and 800 require radically different aerobic/anaerobic elements. Maybe Wariner could train full time for the 800 and go 1:47ish, or go into the 400 hurdles and run 48s, but it always seemed unlikely.

Wariner was a true 400 runner. Crazy speed--in 2006/7 it's not unreasonable to assume that he'd be around 10.15 for 100m--and the incredible lactic acid tolerance needed to not have his form break down in the last 50m of the race. He was a damn near perfect 400m runner.

43.5. He's still the third fastest person to ever run the 400.

*43.45 and 20.19.

jeff tallon wrote:

might i also suggest jarmila kratochvilova? to do what she did at both 400 and 800 metres was both unusual,and freaky.she was the female juantorena,and also a sub 22 second 200 metre runner.

Several Women behind the Iron Curtain put up great times from 100 thru 800.

I wonder how they did it?

Steroids ... definitely for Kratochivilova

Tom Courtney ranked #4 in world in 400m in 1956.

Tom Courtney ranked #1 in world in 400m in 1957.

Tom Courtney won 1956 Olympic 800m.

400 guy wrote:

Wariner was never an 800 guy, and would have wasted his time trying the 800. Doesn't matter if he's white (let's be honest, if he were black this topic would be brought up much less). He was built for the 400. That was his best event, period.

Correct. To run the times Warner did in the 400m and 200m indicate that he was extremely fast twitch in nature. As with all sprinters, the makeup of his muscles are going to be mostly (70%+) fast twitch fibres.

Simply put, his muscles would fatigue immensely after 60s or so of fast running. He might run a great 600m but 800m is just too far for most 400m guys.

Metric Miler wrote:

400 guy wrote:

Wariner was never an 800 guy, and would have wasted his time trying the 800. Doesn't matter if he's white (let's be honest, if he were black this topic would be brought up much less). He was built for the 400. That was his best event, period.

Correct. To run the times Warner did in the 400m and 200m indicate that he was extremely fast twitch in nature. As with all sprinters, the makeup of his muscles are going to be mostly (70%+) fast twitch fibres.

Simply put, his muscles would fatigue immensely after 60s or so of fast running. He might run a great 600m but 800m is just too far for most 400m guys.

- Didn't you meant that "unconditioned" muscles fatigue immensley after 60s or so of fast running. ....

Lickety Split wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

Correct. To run the times Warner did in the 400m and 200m indicate that he was extremely fast twitch in nature. As with all sprinters, the makeup of his muscles are going to be mostly (70%+) fast twitch fibres.

Simply put, his muscles would fatigue immensely after 60s or so of fast running. He might run a great 600m but 800m is just too far for most 400m guys.

- Didn't you meant that "unconditioned" muscles fatigue immensley after 60s or so of fast running. ....

No, this is the worst myth perpetuated in the long distance running community.

There is NO evidence that you can change muscle fibre types significantly with training. You are born a sprinter, you die a sprinter.

If you took Justin Gatlin, made him run 100 mile weeks and do 5 x 1 mile on the track weekly, he would not become a great distance runner.

So many here downright preach that you can't improve speed, you can't take an 800m guy and improve his speed to let him race the 400m. Yet you fail to see that for the same reasons you can't take a 200m sprinter and make him into a distance runner.

Studies have shown that elite distance runners have on average greater than 70% slow twitch muscle fibres, and elite sprinters 70% or more fast twitch fibres.

There have been no studies to show any training methods can cause a significant changing of these muscle fibres either way. Only aging appears to cause a small percentage of fibres to become slow twitch.

No one has ever said that Gatlin would make a great distance runner. He doesn't have the build. But if he lost a lot of muscle mass in training 100 mile weeks, at 6' (?)-138, would he not improve his endurance a great deal?

Wariner had the perfect body type for the 800m. He was such a great 400m runner that he did not need to do it. But honestly, the time that he could have run great 800m times was when he was at his best in the 400m. That was between 2004 and 2008. There have been successful muscle bound 400m runners training up for the 800m. Indeed, Chrishuna Williams just did it in qualifying for the women's 800m team and Brandon Johnson did it before. Mark Everett and the muscular El Caballo and obviously the doper with the women's world record, Kratochvilova. No reason whatsoever that Wariner could not have run low 1:40s at his height. That was long ago, however, and he isn't near the prospect at a time when he is slower at the 400m than the top 800m guys, but also worse in endurance.

- I accept your premise; however, realize that you most likely don\'t have access to Jeremy Wariner\'s muscle fiber results? Furthermore, is your opinion too binary ... obviously as reflected in this post, many others have succeeded in the transition.

- That said, I posit that a Jeremy Wariner 1:53 800m with minimal training at the beginning of the track season indicates that HE COULD significantly improve in either the 800m or 400 IH. Perhaps he\'s at the age where enough fast twitch fibers have transitioned .... he\'s certainly not getting any faster at either the 200m or 400m.

- Thoughts?

There is one large reason he could not run low 1:40s for the 800m, and that is because body type doesn't indicate athletic ability.

If Gatlin lost weight and became leaner then he would still be a sprinter. His start would be slower and he'd have less power, but he would still be internally built to sprint. Just like all these skinny high school sprinters. They are good at sprinting for a reason.

I'm sure his 5k would get a bit better with some mileage due to other physiological effects, but his legs are still going to want to give out over races longer than a minute or so.

I know sprinters who were good over the 200/400 and tried to move up. It just doesn't work in practice. You can take them on the long runs etc but when it comes to it, their wheels fall off at 600m. You can't make fast twitch muscle fibres last.

Look at decathletes. 45s 400m. 4:15 1500m. The best runners will have their 800m lie in the 1:47+ range. Ashton Eaton looks like a great 800m running body type, saw a video of him struggling in a 2 minute time trial. Long way to 1:43.

Lickety Split wrote:

- I accept your premise; however, realize that you most likely don't have access to Jeremy Wariner's muscle fiber results? Furthermore, is your opinion too binary ... obviously as reflected in this post, many others have succeeded in the transition.

- That said, I posit that a Jeremy Wariner 1:53 800m with minimal training at the beginning of the track season indicates that HE COULD significantly improve in either the 800m or 400 IH. Perhaps he's at the age where enough fast twitch fibers have transitioned .... he's certainly not getting any faster at either the 200m or 400m.

- Thoughts?

1:53 is so far away from elite 800m running it isn't even worth talking about.

Literally Rudisha ran 1:50 on a dirt track at 15 years old without training for the event.

If Warner had a talent for the 800m then he would have found it. He knows himself better than the speculators, and he clearly knew from training how much he struggles with the longer stuff. He never even toyed with the 800m just for fun.

You all believe elite sprinters are born, not made. Let me enforce something strongly in everyone's mind:

Elite long distance runners are born, not made.

Elite middle distance runners are also born, not made.

No amount of training will take anyone to elite levels in an event they are not extremely talented at already. That is the hard truth.

Wariner knew he was very, very fast and BORN for the 400m. He could likely run low 20s and ran a 43.5. If you all weren't so caught up on him being white and having a slim build then everyone would see his times indicate he is purely a sprinter.

Kirani James is slimmer.