If you train a sedentary man with elite potential, 3 months later what 5k can he run?

realistic wrote:

He wouldn't break 20 minutes. It takes thousands of miles to get the conditioning you need to run a decent time. Most people think it's about cardiovascular conditioning. That is a minor issue, but then again most people have no clue about what makes you a decent runner.

I went from a 15:35 2-mile (essentially sedentary, 2 weeks of 20mpw before) to 11:30 in 3 months my freshman year of high school.

realistic wrote:

He wouldn't break 20 minutes. It takes thousands of miles to get the conditioning you need to run a decent time. Most people think it's about cardiovascular conditioning. That is a minor issue, but then again most people have no clue about what makes you a decent runner.

You tell them Jonny.

that mediocre guy wrote:

my experience... wrote:

19:58 1st race after 2 weeks of jogging and sedentary previously

16:50 3 months later (running 30 mpw)

15:00 15 months after my 19:58 (running 45-55 mpw)

13:40 6 years after my 19:58 (running 70-90 mpw)

Good post. These times line up almost exactly with my own. Just add 2 minutes to all of them.

Thanks. There was another comment about how some runners are "super responders" and respond dramatically to training. I was definitely in that camp, especially after I added a weekly 90 minute run. It was like popeye eating spinach. On the other hand, teammates doing the same training as me hardly improved.

Nobody who has never run a step or done sports has elite potential. Athletic "talent" develops during childhood in response to environmental stresses. People call it "talent" because they don't understand where it comes from, it is mysterious to them.

Kenyans who grow up starving and working hard all day on their farms, of course they're gonna adapt in a way that makes them good marathoners, for example. Did you grow up hungry and hard at physical labor all day, no, well no elite marathon potential for you, unless maybe you're Galen Rupp. Maybe. But he's probably too big to keep up with the 2:04 crowd.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Nobody who has never run a step or done sports has elite potential. Athletic "talent" develops during childhood in response to environmental stresses. People call it "talent" because they don't understand where it comes from, it is mysterious to them.

Kenyans who grow up starving and working hard all day on their farms, of course they're gonna adapt in a way that makes them good marathoners, for example. Did you grow up hungry and hard at physical labor all day, no, well no elite marathon potential for you, unless maybe you're Galen Rupp. Maybe. But he's probably too big to keep up with the 2:04 crowd.

Idiot.

Lots of people start running late and have elite potential. There's no correlation between growing up "hungry and hard" and having elite potential.

You're a nut job.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Nobody who has never run a step or done sports has elite potential. Athletic "talent" develops during childhood in response to environmental stresses. People call it "talent" because they don't understand where it comes from, it is mysterious to them.

Kenyans who grow up starving and working hard all day on their farms, of course they're gonna adapt in a way that makes them good marathoners, for example. Did you grow up hungry and hard at physical labor all day, no, well no elite marathon potential for you, unless maybe you're Galen Rupp. Maybe. But he's probably too big to keep up with the 2:04 crowd.

WTF

realistic wrote:

Your numbers aren't realistic. How fast would the top pro cyclists run a 5k with no running training? They wouldn't break 20 minutes, they would be in agony after just two miles a 7 minute mile pace.

I'm a cat 1, so not even a pro cyclist.

But off the couch I ran a 21 min after never running a step in my life.. A month later I just snuck under 20 after doing 10-15 miles per week. Never got below high 16s, though, over the next two years.

I have no doubt that there are some pro cyclists that could break 20 mins if they do a minimum amount of walking or hiking or some other load bearing activity and are properly motivated.

anymore in-depth expectations?

It's the ankles, moran wrote:

realistic wrote:

He wouldn't break 20 minutes. It takes thousands of miles to get the conditioning you need to run a decent time. Most people think it's about cardiovascular conditioning. That is a minor issue, but then again most people have no clue about what makes you a decent runner.

You tell them Jonny.

What have ankles got to do with running?

my experience... wrote:

19:58 1st race after 2 weeks of jogging and sedentary previously

16:50 3 months later (running 30 mpw)

15:00 15 months after my 19:58 (running 45-55 mpw)

13:40 6 years after my 19:58 (running 70-90 mpw)

you are off a good start

but slow progression

Yeah, only 13.40 after 6 years, his progression sucks.

After running a few marathons before work, I was able to get down to 13:07 in six months.

hobby jogger alert wrote:

Yeah, only 13.40 after 6 years, his progression sucks.

he should have gone down into sub 13 5k in a span of only one year with regarding to his innate ability and talented progression.

I agree. He will probably say he couldn't get time off work or get in the Grand Prix meets some other lame excuse?

I joined freshman XC as a very active, super skinny non-runner. With a pretty hard effort , i had been breaking 6 in the mile since the first test in the 7th grade. The first time I trained for xc, school had already started. XC sucked! Fitness started to really kick in between XC and track, So about 4 months just for steady state running fitness to start kicking in big time. The story was the same for other new runners.

I don't understand why for a truly sedentary genetically elite fitness would start to kick in sooner. Elite or not, we are mostly made of the same stuff.

i would like to know K Bekele`s case.

can he run 14:30 5k on 25 mpw?

Gross motor skills are developed in childhood.

Your guy must have had an active childhood to preserve that "elite potential".

Without it, 20 min may not be possible.

George Ilie wrote:

Gross motor skills are developed in childhood.

Your guy must have had an active childhood to preserve that "elite potential".

Without it, 20 min may not be possible.

does running during childhood back and forth to school leave any permanent running economy skills when becoming an adult?

RE can also be detrained.

elitefieldshard wrote:

George Ilie wrote:

Gross motor skills are developed in childhood.

Your guy must have had an active childhood to preserve that "elite potential".

Without it, 20 min may not be possible.

does running during childhood back and forth to school leave any permanent running economy skills when becoming an adult?

RE can also be detrained.

Surely some. And I agree that some would be lost through inactivity or doing other sports and not running.

Back to those ankles again. Our heels roll inwards as our foot stays on the ground causing a lot of twisting between rear foot and forefoot at the same time as our arches are sinking before push off.

That is a heck of a lot of complicated motion, the skills of which vary on every surface and with different shoes etc.

That's why it takes years and thousands of miles to learn how to run fast and long.

But I also agree with George Ilie that the basic skills are learned in childhood. And that applies to most kids, or at least I hope it still does?