Running the mile at 40+

thanks for not misconstruing my points or questions.

most people underestimate enthusiasm in favor of some magnificent workout plan, which to me is putting the cart before the horse. in the masters ranks that i've been part of, you can clearly see the enthusiasm they have for running and the pursuit of any goal, however large or small.

don't know where you're located, but i can't overstate the value of a good club and a coach--even if it's just a dude with a stopwatch, someone you can consistently bounce ideas off of, or someone who can take a look at the big picture approach. i meet with clubmates at least once a week, and this really rejuvenated both my love of running (after years of only running with the h.s. kids i coached) and my desire to set new goals.

someone alluded to a masters milers page on facebook; if you're on facebook, look me up (christian cushing-murray) and i'd be happy to invite you to the page.

also, you remind me of a guy in boulder with some similarities in your mile goals--maybe his blog might give you some ideas or resources:

http://boulderrunning.com/

he has a section called the #mileproject (full disclosure: i am featured in the latest one) that has five questions with such luminaries as leo manzano and jenny simpson, all worthwhile reading.

good luck, and have fun...

I specialize in the 800 but run 400 and 1500 as second events. So we know you are very strong from marathoning. What I do today that I did not do during my open years is run a lot of small hills and inclines even on my easy days. That strength helps me use my natural speed.

If you are looking for 4:30 then I don't think you have to have sub-60 second 400 meters speed. I've seen 8:34 for 3000 meters and 2:21 for the marathon from a runner who never broke 60 in the 400m.

I keep my schedule simple and on a two week cycle and rest anytime I want to rest. Breaks are taken easily off of 2 week cycles. Basically I run Sunday to Saturday with a long run, easy run, long repeats 6 X 1000 with 200 on small hills, rest day, repeat 16 X 200 with 200 on small hills, easy run, race Saturday as long as 5000 and as short as 400.

The next week the same except Tuesday is 16 X 400s with 200s and 16 X 100s with 300s. If I need a break from the small hills especially with speed work I run on a track. Oh, and I tend to train slower than race pace on the 1000s and 400s. On the 200s and 100s I run them mostly just naturally by feel. I don't want to press them. At the most I will push harder on every 4th one. And the Saturday races are not all out races every time but part of training. I go for it when I want.

I think running 200s and 100s up hills and jogging back down is mostly what I wanted to emphasize. Since you are already distance strong maybe you could rotate one week running them up hill and the next week on a flat course like the track. And what I find for me is that I'm really ready for a fast 1500/Mile when I start racing 800 meters about equal to or faster than my 200 repeats pace. Also before I am ready to really go for a fast 800 I usually run Saturday races in a pattern like this: 800, 1500, 400, 800. It works over 90% of the time for me. So you may try gearing up in that way of equal distance, longer, shorter then the Mile. So I do think it is good to do more racing than you are probably used to doing to adapt to it.

You can do it! I ran my fastest road 5K at 41 beating my 23 year old PB and I know a lot of sub-elite runners who ran faster in their 40s than they did in high school.

Sorry if my English is not good for you to understand.

Good Luck!

40yearoldmiler wrote:

Any 40+ guys out there have experience with running a fast-ish mile after a 22 year hiatus from running a maximal mile?

I did exactly this after about 20 years away from competitive racing. Had a blast getting back into shape and racing 5ks as well. Managed a 4:18 1500 at age 42 and then backed off. Felt like I was a race or 3 away from really ripping one; low 4:30s maybe, but was happy with what I achieved nonetheless. My background was 4:17 1600 in HS and 3:50 1500 in college. To get down to sub 4:30 at our age is rarified air indeed, but there is only one way to find out. I can honestly say I enjoyed the training and tracking of progress much more this time around than when it really mattered. Best of luck.

Thanks again to everyone for keeping the post positive and some great advice.

I think everyone eventually starts to wonder if they could actually PR again in there favorite dicipline. I am sure there will be day....that I'm to old to pull this off, but I think I have a shot.

The enthusiasm for the project has been simmering for about 4 years. I stopped bike racing a few years back and have a massive void for some competition and a goal. The longer marathon efforts have been wicked fun and super challenging, but I have found to difficult to get to v02 Max while running all out...it all feels like marathon pace.

My mile repeats, 5k efforts, 1/2 marathon, and marathon all feel about the same effort.

It almost feels like I forgot how to go all-out. I have 2-3 speeds..mainly slow and marathon pace. If I go faster than 5:10 mile pace it is just sprinting which unfortunately is probably only 4:40 mile pace for 100 meters!

Unfortunately I live where there aren't a ton of masters runners who run/race shorter distances.

So training will mostly be solo.

Most guys are running 100k trail stuff around here.

I occasionaly get a shot to run with some college guys but normally their season ...and competition schedule are tricky to work around.

I think it's good to collect advice and words of wisdom, but I think it was Pete Magaill that said you have to be a workout "maven." What works for some of us won't work for you, particularly when it comes to injury prevention.

A few things that worked for me (got down to 4:31 1500m at age 45, compared to 4:58 PR in 1600m in Grade 9.

1. Classic miler workout 10 to 12x400m with ~1 minute recovery jogs between). I have a few variations of this, but it got me used to running at my target pace, especially after some lactate builds up in the legs. Your 2:33 marathon means your lactate threshold has to be high, but you have to retrain your legs to maintain high turnover.

2. Speaking of turnover, I found plyometrics to be beneficial. Some of what I did were the Loughborough series that Coe and Ovett did, but I added some some box jumps and some of the strength training that Joe Johnson outlined in his Running Times column(http://www.coachjayjohnson.com/2011/11/eight-week-general-strength-progression/). I typically did this 2-3 times per week, 20-30 minutes per session, so it wasn't a big adjustment.

3. Race some miles! Most older people I know who race the mile agree that it take a few mile races to adjust and put all of the pieces of your training plan together

Good luck! I hope to get back under 5 in time for the Masters road mile in Flint.

Scott

I don't think you have to have blazing speed, or really quick 200/400s

I ran 4:31 at 39, and sub 5 in mid 50s (and 5:02 equivalent at Master's Nationals two days after the 5000m when 53).

I would basically concentrate on 8 x 400m with about 1:30 recovery (that's 1:30 standing/walking/slow jogging not 1:30 for 200m).

That's only 67 per 400m. They will tend to feel like all out sprints or 8 separate races for a bit, but the adjustment gradually comes.

You also need to be running speed work relaxed. It's better to start with 400s in 70 with good form and control than 67s straining.

The last time I tried to get ready for a mile I would do 400s on a Tuesday, and a 1200m on a Saturday (the first attempt at 1200m at race-pace came to a burning halt at 800m, but managed 1200m at race pace the next weekend).

My 2 cts: Running a PR will be difficult but running something in the low 4:30s should be pretty easy, really.

I ran in the upper 4:20s in high school and again in my forties so I know it can be done. Several guys have already said this, but I would be surprised if you could not get down below 4:35 just by doing some neuromuscular workouts so that 66-67 does not feel like hammering. The good news is that it is pretty easy to re-awaken the neuromuscular circuits involved in 'running well', in the sense of being relaxed at that pace. Reps at 200 - 600 meters (with good recoveries) to relearn how to motor through 2 laps at 2:15 as calmly as possible. Intervals with short rest to be fit enough to keep going.

Don't expect a whole lot out of your kick, especially after age 50. Sucks to work so hard to basically just not slow down.

Ok ...again thanks for the advice and most

Importantly the stories about how it is doable. It is hard to find people who have done it locally for advice. Let'sRun might be the largest data base is people who actually have experimented with this project.

I'm Going to definitely do some hills,track,plyo... And see if I can stimulate some leg speed.

The exact time I run is irrelevant, but going faster and getting close to 4:30 would be rad.

Staying healthy will be tricky.

I'm thinking of making the "masters mile in flint Michigan" in August a goal event to keep myself honest.... and follow that with a few track time trials or maybe another road mile.

this.... wrote:

This is great banter from some guys that like to train.

You obviously know more than you are letting on, while purposefully, or not, trying to be a little enigmatic, for whatever reason. So..."long ski races", and "way to many bike races"? So really now, in addition to the 40 miles a week, what other weekly training were you putting in to run 'only' a 2:33 at 40?

The low mileage is definitely complimented by 10 years of bike racing previously. Estimate about 10-15 hours per week for a decade...and a crap ton of racing bikes everything from cyclocross to stage races. ....

About 3 years ago I stopped riding and mainly Nordic ski in the winter and run now. I do roller ski and Nordic track 1-2

Hours per week some weeks.

Depending on weather and snow I get some solid volume in during the winter skiing. The low mileage keeps me pretty healthy and when running the 30-40 mile weeks that is 100:/: quality.

Typical week has been(30-40 miles total)

-weekly 10 miler at 6 pace

-1-2 track sessions of miles or simlar...5 or 6...at 5:20-5:40 (-about 10 miles each run)

My guess is I get 50-70 miles of training load if you count all the cross training.

I turn 40 in 18 months and am training to get back under 4:00 for 1500m. I come from a strong track background with good speed. My question for the Cali guys is - how important are doubles? Are they a necessary evil?

Bump

The only thing I see missing here is to point out that this cat has been skinned on here many times over the last 15 years.

The thread below is from 2007 but there are MANY others. Go find them.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2146574

Self Coached Runner II

The Self-Coached Runner II: Cross Country and the Shorter Distances (v. 2) Paperback – March, 1987

by Allan Lawrence (Author), Mark Scheid (Author)

https://www.amazon.com/Self-Coached-Runner-II-Country-Distances/dp/0316773026

some good ideas here