Don't go too hard on workouts? El Guerrouj says he ran until he was sick.

glacius wrote:

Yep!! wrote:

A training session can be a lot harder than a race.

How?

More effort, more exertion. 12x400m is 3 miles at mile pace. You can't do more than a mile in a mile race.

oodo wrote:

More effort, more exertion. 12x400m is 3 miles at mile pace. You can't do more than a mile in a mile race.

No but you can run two 800s in a mile race. Isn't that the point of 12x400 to break the pace down to make it easier? How would a workout be more effort and exertion than a race?

fullgore wrote:

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-train-very-hard-until-i-am-sick-sometimes-i-train-like-a-foolish-man-who-has-no-mind-hicham-el-guerrouj-141-48-56.jpg

Goes against the whole training smart idea of not going too hard on workouts.

9.5/10

You got a lot of biters on this one. Look I can play too:

"I hate white people. It is my hatred of the whites that motivates me to win. Notice my symbol is an upside-down W, because I turn the whites on their heads before I spank their stupid bottoms."

-Mo Farah

glacius wrote:

oodo wrote:

More effort, more exertion. 12x400m is 3 miles at mile pace. You can't do more than a mile in a mile race.

No but you can run two 800s in a mile race. Isn't that the point of 12x400 to break the pace down to make it easier? How would a workout be more effort and exertion than a race?

Oh boy.

Kiprop looked like he had just finished a jog and was not even breathing hard after the Bowerman mile.

His 1200m split in this mile race at sea level altitude was around 2:55.5 while his 1200m split in his workout at 7,300 ft. altitude...which also included 4 x 400m in 54sec (50 sec recovery) and 4 x 200m in 23sec (50sec recovery) still to come...was 2:47.

Of course he was not breathing hard after that race...since it was way, way easier than his workout.

OK?

rjm33 wrote:

glacius wrote:

No but you can run two 800s in a mile race. Isn't that the point of 12x400 to break the pace down to make it easier? How would a workout be more effort and exertion than a race?

Oh boy.

Kiprop looked like he had just finished a jog and was not even breathing hard after the Bowerman mile.

His 1200m split in this mile race at sea level altitude was around 2:55.5 while his 1200m split in his workout at 7,300 ft. altitude...which also included 4 x 400m in 54sec (50 sec recovery) and 4 x 200m in 23sec (50sec recovery) still to come...was 2:47.

Of course he was not breathing hard after that race...since it was way, way easier than his workout.

OK?

None of that matters only effort level does, I am not talking about running faster in races I am talking about effort level in workouts and races. If he put in the effort to run that workout he could put in that same effort to run a faster mile.

glacius wrote:

rjm33 wrote:

Oh boy.

Kiprop looked like he had just finished a jog and was not even breathing hard after the Bowerman mile.

His 1200m split in this mile race at sea level altitude was around 2:55.5 while his 1200m split in his workout at 7,300 ft. altitude...which also included 4 x 400m in 54sec (50 sec recovery) and 4 x 200m in 23sec (50sec recovery) still to come...was 2:47.

Of course he was not breathing hard after that race...since it was way, way easier than his workout.

OK?

None of that matters only effort level does, I am not talking about running faster in races I am talking about effort level in workouts and races. If he put in the effort to run that workout he could put in that same effort to run a faster mile.

You're obviously not very bright. The fact that races are much easier than workouts is the reason people like Salazar's runners do post-race workouts.

How are races easier than workouts that makes no sense, your race should be your best effort otherwise you wasn't even trying. I imagine Salazar does that for extra training effect after races, to push the body when it's tired.

More like workouts are easier than races that's why Salazer CAN give his athletes workouts after a race. I don't see him giving workouts BEFORE a race, that's because the race is harder.

Holy Sh!t. You definitely lack a brain. I'm looking forward to the responses from the peanut gallery.

pop-corn eater wrote:

Holy Sh!t. You definitely lack a brain. I'm looking forward to the responses from the peanut gallery.

Enlighten me then, a lack of training knowledge doesn't mean a lack of intelligence. Giving insults is a sign of a low IQ though....

glacius wrote:

More like workouts are easier than races that's why Salazer CAN give his athletes workouts after a race. I don't see him giving workouts BEFORE a race, that's because the race is harder.

It depends on the race and it depends on the workout.

Although Alberto 'Androgel' Salazar does not give workouts BEFORE a race…he does have runners use other things BEFORE a race... like beta-2 agonist inhalers so his athletes with 'asthma' can breathe easier... and he will also have his athletes with 'hypothyroidism' take thyroid medication so that they feel 'perky' at the race.

All of Alberto's runners also eat Wheaties cereal in the morning before a race.

It is the 'Breakfast of Champions'.

formerD1 wrote:

El G and other elite athletes are a different breed. Hobby joggers will either get injured or burn out taking this approach. For them, winning races and beat others is not the objective - they are more interested in setting PRs and racing against themselves.

For serious runners, Canova himself said it's better to go too hard and not be able to finish a workout than take the coward's approach of taking it easy for fear of not being able to adequately recover. He mentioned it was the Western countries that took this coward's approach.

Figure out whether you're a hobby jogger or whether you want to be the best. Then either train like El G or Canova's athletes, or go read a RUnner's World marathon training guide.

For the love of God, STFU.

rjm33 wrote:

It depends on the race and it depends on the workout.

Alright mate, thanks for the excellent explanation :)

The point of this kind of training is to acclimate the athlete to race effort. With 12x400 at race pace, the body spends 3x as much time at race effort and therefore would elicit more of a training response than simply running a mile flat out (i.e. a race). Obviously running a mile flat out every day would not be an effective or efficient way of training. So the workout trains the body for a race without tearing down the body the way a race would.

I imagine Salazar has his athletes do post-race workouts is because tapering, traveling to a meet and racing means training is disturbed, workouts missed. This is his way of trying to compensate for the missed training.

glacius wrote:

How are races easier than workouts that makes no sense, your race should be your best effort otherwise you wasn't even trying. I imagine Salazar does that for extra training effect after races, to push the body when it's tired.

Define "best effort." If by this you mean running flat out from the gun to a point of collapse that's not smart racing. At the pro level races are not some kind of masochistic contest to see how much you can hurt and push yourself. When you're racing the best runners in the world the point is to get to the line first by whatever means necessary. Going flat out from the gun is not going to work against pros. When Kiprop saw a fast time wasn't possible he ran to win -- that was the smart thing to do. Kiprop can run 2:47 in practice solo because there's nothing at stake -- it's training. Running 2:47 in a race where the whole pack goes with the pace is necessary, but running 2:47 when no one else is willing to go that fast is foolhardy even for Kiprop.

Yeah it's a crock the not all out relaxed bs spouted on here.

Tergat is quoted saying something similar prior to the 2000 olympics. He trained until he was physically sick from the hard sessions. Maybe this is how the greats trained back in the day.

Keep in mind that El G often dedicated like half the year just for the summer track season (without any indoor or 'warmup' races that US runners do these days). He'd train like a monk from the fall until end of may or June and destroy people in the summer. Summer track season was his only racing period (during his prime). No XC or indoors or early spring races.

Train hard win easy, where have we heard that before?