Did the Cincinnati zoo officials shoot the gorilla too fast?

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

whole story wrote:

You have to demonstrate that it was reasonable to anticipate that the child would and could get into the gorilla enclosure. Just because a child gets away from a parent doesn't mean the parent should be charged with negligence. It can happen quickly but usually without harmful results. The zoo didn't anticipate anyone getting into the gorilla pit. That's why they had a 15' wall. The onlookers didn't anticipate this or any of them would've grabbed the kid. The mom didn't anticipate this either. That's the simple point I've been trying to make. Could this chain of events have been anticipated. One of the eye-witnesses (and hence my username on this thread because I linked her whole account on page 6) clearly stated that no one in the crowd actually thought he'd go over the 15' drop into the gorilla pit.

Actually, I have to demonstrate that it is reasonable for parents to be responsible for the safety of their children.

Well, now that I think about it, that's completely obvious and beyond dispute.

whole story wrote:

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

Actually, I have to demonstrate that it is reasonable for parents to be responsible for the safety of their children.

Well, now that I think about it, that's completely obvious and beyond dispute.

Nope. You have to demonstrate more than that. Like I said, you have to demonstrate that it was reasonable to anticipate that the kid would and could get in the gorilla enclosure.

If a parent leaves the back door open and a toddler runs out back and drowns in a swimming pool, that's negligence. The situation should've been anticipated. But if a toddler gets a stick and manages to unlock the sliding door and runs out back and drowns, is that negligence? Is it reasonable to anticipate that a toddler could or would do that?

To show parental negligence, you need to demonstrate that it was reasonable to anticipate that the kid would and could get in the gorilla enclosure. The zoo didn't anticipate that. The other onlookers didn't anticipate that. The mom didn't anticipate that.

whole story wrote:

this witness wrote:

Wrong. Not the only eye witness. Watch the news video. Here's an eye witness who clearly says the woman wasn't watching the child, despite him asking to go into the enclosure. What she saw was:

"She had other children and she was busy with them and fussing with them"

http://www.wlwt.com/news/police-responding-incident-at-cincinnati-zoo/39773436

You can believe this is a great parent who could have done nothing to prevent this if you want, but it's a lot easier to believe the obvious - that kid was not being watched and he was a handful who specifically needed watching. Why was he a handful? I doubt the bad parenting only started that day. That gorilla is dead because of that mother.

Don't jump to conclusions. Read the whole eye-witness from Deidre Lykins.

https://www.facebook.com/dee.rister/posts/934660816651599

The debate is not whether this mom is a great parent. Who knows. Nobody is debating if it could have been prevented. The question is whether or not it could be realistically anticipated that the kid could actually get into that water, even if the kid said he wanted to do so. The zoo didn't anticipate it, or else they would've built a much better barrier. The crowd didn't anticipate it, or else someone would've grabbed the kid.

Notice that Deidre said that nobody thought, even after the kid crossed the barrier and was crawling through the bushes, that the kid would drop down into the water until it happened. Nobody anticipated or expected this to happen or else someone would've grabbed the kid and prevented it. And sure the kid said he wanted to go in the water, but nobody thought the kid was serious or that it was possible or else Kim O'Connor, the witness in your link, would've stopped the kid. She didn't claim the mom was a bad mom or negligent, only that she was distracted with the other kids with her. Anybody, not just the mom, would've stopped the kid if they thought it was possible.

Hindsight is 20/20. So yes, in hindsight, this was entirely preventable.

If you've ever taken a group of small kids out into public, it is not easy keeping them all in line and prevent every possible danger because it's easy to get distracted with one while another does something else. Sometimes, it can seem like herding cats. In a split second, a kid can do something that is difficult to prevent.

Flagpole wrote:

Well, some of that is debatable. The kid apparently told his mother that he was going to get in there and he was adamant about it. Deserves at least some looking into which is why I said "perhaps". And, someone else inferred that you had to purposefully do something to cause harm, but that is not true. People are charged with endangering a child all the time due to negligence.

Here's the bottom line:

1) People first, so while it is fine to be sad that the gorilla had to be put down, it is inarguable that anything else could have been done or should have been done. You just don't take a chance with the life of a human.

2) 4-year-olds are not to blame for anything, so even if this kid regularly misbehaves or is "strong-willed" or any other thing you want to assign to a child, he is still just 4 years old and is not at fault at all. All children need guidance, and all children need different guidance.

3) It is possible to believe that the mother PERHAPS should be charged with child endangerment and it not have anything to do with retaliation or justice for the gorilla or any other such nonsense. I don't have a burning need to have her charged with anything, but it bears investigation.

asdfgh wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

I have an 8 yr old who has always followed directions. Never needed to spank her. You teach a child right and wrong from an early age and amazingly they listen. If however they are raised by your local childcare facility.....then results may vary. Our household is a unique one.....mother and father still together....one child.....single income.

Alan

Wow, this is either a brilliant troll or you are a complete idiot. The fact that you only have one child should at least lead you to question your cause and effect conclusions based on a sample size of one.

I've known plenty of families in your situation that don't have children that follow directions. One of them involves a boy that got kicked out of school. His sister, 2 years younger is the best behaved child I've ever known and is a straight A student. So do you think his parents taught her right from wrong, but didn't to the first child?

But He's Right wrote:

asdfgh wrote:

Wow, this is either a brilliant troll or you are a complete idiot. The fact that you only have one child should at least lead you to question your cause and effect conclusions based on a sample size of one.

I've known plenty of families in your situation that don't have children that follow directions. One of them involves a boy that got kicked out of school. His sister, 2 years younger is the best behaved child I've ever known and is a straight A student. So do you think his parents taught her right from wrong, but didn't to the first child?

He's actually right. We have a 6 and 10 year old boys. Raised at home and not in a daycare. Private schooled, not in one of the awful Public Schools where they go out of their way not to teach children. They were taught right from wrong and personal responsibility at a very young age. Never spanked. Always listen and we always get comments from others about how well behaved and well mannered they are,

It is amazing that when you take the time to work with a child early on and not rely on others to do it, that they actually grow up into great kids and adults.

Most parents these days are just too lazy to take the time and push the responsibility off on someone else. And they wonder what is wrong with the child. smh

And One wrote:

But He's Right wrote:

He's actually right. We have a 6 and 10 year old boys. Raised at home and not in a daycare. Private schooled, not in one of the awful Public Schools where they go out of their way not to teach children. They were taught right from wrong and personal responsibility at a very young age. Never spanked. Always listen and we always get comments from others about how well behaved and well mannered they are,

It is amazing that when you take the time to work with a child early on and not rely on others to do it, that they actually grow up into great kids and adults.

Most parents these days are just too lazy to take the time and push the responsibility off on someone else. And they wonder what is wrong with the child. smh

That's funny. I was just thinking that most people these days are just too lazy to take the time to understand the difference between the real world and what they see on TV or the Internet. And then they wonder what is wrong with the world. Young folks today are great. Get out of your house and meet a few. smh