Kenya, Ethiopia, and Eritrea have some great runners. Less from the last, because of the repressive regime? Although Ethiopia has a repressive regime too, right?
Very few top marathoners come from Congo, Burundi, Tanzania, and Rwanda though, why?
Kenya, Ethiopia, and Eritrea have some great runners. Less from the last, because of the repressive regime? Although Ethiopia has a repressive regime too, right?
Very few top marathoners come from Congo, Burundi, Tanzania, and Rwanda though, why?
I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the political instabilities of some of these countries. I don't pay enough attention but I know these countries have had major issues in the recent past and I think people are basically just trying to survive instead of going for recreational jogs.
Congo - murderous gorillas
Rwanda - I think there was a movie about a spooky hotel there. Probably ghosts.
Tanzania - Tanzanian Devil will chase you
Burundi - you made that country up
Not a "marathon" runner, but Filbert Bayi from Tanzania was pretty good at the 1500m. Not sure why there aren't more. Perhaps extreme poverty or perhaps football and other sports are more popular.
Genetics. Some of those countries are more fast twitch. However Tanzania and Burundi are known for their endurance athletes if not pure marathon runners.
Ikaanga and Shahanga were from Tanzania as was Moscow silver medalist
Nyambui.
Niyongabo was from Burundi.
Civil unrest is likely responsible for part of the lull in excellence as well as popularity of running in general in those countries.
Population of Ethiopia: 90,000,000 (2nd of countries in Africa)
Population of Kenya: 44,000,000 (7th)
Rwanda: 11,000,000
Burundi: 10,000,000 and I'm pretty sure they've put out some good runners.
Then there's Uganda: 35,000,000. They've done well but not as well as Kenya.
Tanzania: 48,000,000, but most don't live in the rift valley (and they've had some very good runners: Bayi, Nyambui, Shahanga, Ikangaa.)
My guess: Large number of people + fortuitous success of Keino, Bikila, Yifter, et al. early on that created a running culture. Uganda hasn't been as stable as Kenya and doesn't have the population of Ethiopia (which was also unstable but has more than twice the population), so not as successful, but they're no slouches either. The others just don't have the population base to compete on equal terms.
Why does NOP 'produce' so many top athletes, but others not?
The Kalenjin migrated from the Upper Nile which is now Sudan to Kenya. They are only 10% of Kenya's runners. They probably never emgrated to those other countrys in large numbers.
A combination of various factors. A lot of kids have to walk miles to school so why not run? Same goes when you need to visit family or go to the he shop. They already have thousands of miles in their legs by the time start to actually train.
Altitude - the body is working much harder to do the same job. Heart and lungs therefore stronger once they come and race at sea level.
Poverty - running is a way out of it. A tough start in life makes you very determined.
I'd recommend reading the book "two hours". Absolutely excellent book about African marathon runners
The Rift Valley runs from Syria to Mozambique (one arm) - I think although that is not the issue here.
I've said this before that there things that we don't just understand.
God, in his infinite wisdom made it that way.
It has nothing to do with repression because Cuba and North Korea and Myanmar and all those other places would be doing very well by that barometer.
When God created the EArth, he lumped together most of the stones in Afghanistan. No particular reason for that.
I have frankly wondered about this subject but for anything (justifying reason) that one puts forth, I have a counter argument.
Kenya is by the way among the top twelve big economies in Africa. Africa has just about 55 countries.
So, if it's about poverty, we are doing much better than very many countries.
Almost everyone (I'd put this at about 90-95%) in Sub Saharan Africa runs/walks to school.
That would mean that the entire country should have very fast runners but that is not the case.
I don't think we know the answer.
A Native Son of the Rift Valley.
NativeSon wrote:
The Rift Valley runs from Syria to Mozambique (one arm) - I think although that is not the issue here.
I've said this before that there things that we don't just understand.
God, in his infinite wisdom made it that way.
It has nothing to do with repression because Cuba and North Korea and Myanmar and all those other places would be doing very well by that barometer.
When God created the EArth, he lumped together most of the stones in Afghanistan. No particular reason for that.
I have frankly wondered about this subject but for anything (justifying reason) that one puts forth, I have a counter argument.
Kenya is by the way among the top twelve big economies in Africa. Africa has just about 55 countries.
So, if it's about poverty, we are doing much better than very many countries.
Almost everyone (I'd put this at about 90-95%) in Sub Saharan Africa runs/walks to school.
That would mean that the entire country should have very fast runners but that is not the case.
I don't think we know the answer.
A Native Son of the Rift Valley.
Sure we do, it's genetics you clown.
Why doesn't Somalia have great runners competing domestically? The great Mo Farah competes for Britain, the nearly-great Mo Ahmed and Hassan Mead compete for Canada and the US, respectively. These are just a few guys who happened to be lucky and moved to countries with better athletic opportunity. One suspects that if Somalia was a more stable place, its runners could be up there among the best from Kenya and Ethiopia.
Mantoatee wrote:
NativeSon wrote:The Rift Valley runs from Syria to Mozambique (one arm) - I think although that is not the issue here.
I've said this before that there things that we don't just understand.
God, in his infinite wisdom made it that way.
It has nothing to do with repression because Cuba and North Korea and Myanmar and all those other places would be doing very well by that barometer.
When God created the EArth, he lumped together most of the stones in Afghanistan. No particular reason for that.
I have frankly wondered about this subject but for anything (justifying reason) that one puts forth, I have a counter argument.
Kenya is by the way among the top twelve big economies in Africa. Africa has just about 55 countries.
So, if it's about poverty, we are doing much better than very many countries.
Almost everyone (I'd put this at about 90-95%) in Sub Saharan Africa runs/walks to school.
That would mean that the entire country should have very fast runners but that is not the case.
I don't think we know the answer.
A Native Son of the Rift Valley.
Sure we do, it's genetics you clown.
So, what about genetics Mr. wise guy?
geography wrote:
Kenya, Ethiopia, and Eritrea have some great runners. Less from the last, because of the repressive regime? Although Ethiopia has a repressive regime too, right?
Very few top marathoners come from Congo, Burundi, Tanzania, and Rwanda though, why?
This boils down to the fact that Kenya and Ethiopia have running cultures, whereas the other neighboring countries don't. However, exceptional running talent has clearly emerged from neighboring East African countries, pointing to a lot of untapped potential.
Burundi, Rwanda, and Tanzania DO produce many top runners. But these countries have underdeveloped athletics systems where athletes are not well supported or scouted for, and ordinary people don't go all crazy about running and have a running culture like the Kalenjin of Kenya do. These other East African countries have so much more potential that could seriously challenge Kenya if fully developed.
In Tanzania, the top runners all come from north-central Tanzania, where South Cushitic languages and Maasai (a Nilotic alnguage) are spoken. They're from places like Arusha and Dodoma, not too far from Mt. Kilimanjaro. North-central Tanzanians are thus genetically and linguistically closely related to the "running tribes" of Kenya and Ethiopia, respectively the Kalenjin and Oromo peoples. And in the 1980's, the top American collegiate runners were often Tanzanians like Suleiman Nyambui.
In Rwanda and Burundi, top runners are all Tutsi people, who are descended from Nilotic herders that subjugated the local Hutu (Bantu) farmers. Burundi's most famous distance runner is Venuste Niyongabo, who won a gold medal in the 5000 m at the 1996 Olympics. Rwandans are also well represented in international running competitions. Rwanda has many good athletes like Dieudonné Disi.
Sudan also produces good runners, especially middle-distance runners.
- Abubaker Kaki Khamis - from western Sudan
- Ismail Ahmed Ismail - from Darfur
- Mohamed Babiker Yagoub and his nephew Waleed Suliman (currently running for the University of Mississippi) - from Darfur
Sudan has got so much more potential though. Imagine the talent that we could discover if we closely scout Sudanese and Somali refugees in Western countries for running talent. Lopez Lomong was one of them.
Zambia has produced some great runners, some of whom ran for US colleges back in the 80's and 90's. Godfrey Siamusiye, a Zambian, won the NCAA D1 XC championships back in 1995 and 1996. Jordan Chipangama, a Zambian who ran for Northern Arizona, placed 5th the NCAA D1 XC championships in 2009.
Zimbabwe produces many great runners, and they tend to be from the high-altitude eastern region of Manicaland. We have many examples like Cuthbert Nyasango.
South Africa and Lesotho also have many fast runners.
Kalenjin Kings wrote:
The Kalenjin migrated from the Upper Nile which is now Sudan to Kenya. They are only 10% of Kenya's runners. They probably never emgrated to those other countrys in large numbers.
I think you meant to say the Kalenjin are 10% of Kenya's population (about 5 million people). This makes Kenya's success even more remarkable. Didn't David Epstein explain that the main physical difference between the Kalenjin and others is that they have very skinny ankles and calves?
I think it also has to do with a "running culture" which also explains why Americans are less deep as a distance running nation when compared to the 70s and 80s.
FlyingFast wrote:
geography wrote:
Kenya, Ethiopia, and Eritrea have some great runners. Less from the last, because of the repressive regime? Although Ethiopia has a repressive regime too, right?
Very few top marathoners come from Congo, Burundi, Tanzania, and Rwanda though, why?
This boils down to the fact that Kenya and Ethiopia have running cultures, whereas the other neighboring countries don't. However, exceptional running talent has clearly emerged from neighboring East African countries, pointing to a lot of untapped potential.
Burundi, Rwanda, and Tanzania DO produce many top runners. But these countries have underdeveloped athletics systems where athletes are not well supported or scouted for, and ordinary people don't go all crazy about running and have a running culture like the Kalenjin of Kenya do. These other East African countries have so much more potential that could seriously challenge Kenya if fully developed.
In Tanzania, the top runners all come from north-central Tanzania, where South Cushitic languages and Maasai (a Nilotic alnguage) are spoken. They're from places like Arusha and Dodoma, not too far from Mt. Kilimanjaro. North-central Tanzanians are thus genetically and linguistically closely related to the "running tribes" of Kenya and Ethiopia, respectively the Kalenjin and Oromo peoples. And in the 1980's, the top American collegiate runners were often Tanzanians like Suleiman Nyambui.
In Rwanda and Burundi, top runners are all Tutsi people, who are descended from Nilotic herders that subjugated the local Hutu (Bantu) farmers. Burundi's most famous distance runner is Venuste Niyongabo, who won a gold medal in the 5000 m at the 1996 Olympics. Rwandans are also well represented in international running competitions. Rwanda has many good athletes like Dieudonné Disi.
Sudan also produces good runners, especially middle-distance runners.
- Abubaker Kaki Khamis - from western Sudan
- Ismail Ahmed Ismail - from Darfur
- Mohamed Babiker Yagoub and his nephew Waleed Suliman (currently running for the University of Mississippi) - from Darfur
Sudan has got so much more potential though. Imagine the talent that we could discover if we closely scout Sudanese and Somali refugees in Western countries for running talent. Lopez Lomong was one of them.
Zambia has produced some great runners, some of whom ran for US colleges back in the 80's and 90's. Godfrey Siamusiye, a Zambian, won the NCAA D1 XC championships back in 1995 and 1996. Jordan Chipangama, a Zambian who ran for Northern Arizona, placed 5th the NCAA D1 XC championships in 2009.
Zimbabwe produces many great runners, and they tend to be from the high-altitude eastern region of Manicaland. We have many examples like Cuthbert Nyasango.
South Africa and Lesotho also have many fast runners.
There is so much vitriol and nonsense posted on Letsrun I often wonder why I still bother with this site.
And the you get a thoughtful, considered and informative Post such as this and it is all worthwhile again.
Maybe Italian and dutch criminals are still not discovered those countries?
In the 80s, a few marathon runners from Djibouti emerged at the top level of the sport and then disappeared as fast as they had appeared (so other countries in the region can produce top runners). How many top European coaches with syringes full of PEDs have come to the other countries in the region, though?