AJ Dropping Bombs on Lagat

Sorry, youngster, but Ru Paul released his song in 1993 and Lil' Kim released her "Crush on You" album in 1997. As usual in the music business, one of her writers ripped off an idea from another artist.

Ru Paul's "A Shade Shadey":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59M-mFiGSPg

Lil' Kim's "Crush on You" album:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crush_on_You_

(Lil'_Kim_song)

Well this was in 2003, in the early years of EPO testing. I have the impression that the mistakes discovered here were valuable lessons learned that led to improved process changes.

biochemist2 wrote:

Thank you for the link Clerk!

I am shock that they relied on only IEF to differentiate between recombinant and endogenous EPO. As discussed in the paper, simple protein modifications can greatly alter the IEP of proteins and cause them to run differently in the gel. This can happen in urine due to the athletes specific physiology, contamination, or some other mishandling of the sample.

I would never trust IEF alone to differentiate. Absolutely correct in the paper that a mAb should be generated that recognizes the glycosylation patter of rEPO.

There were problems implementing the epo test but its unlikely there were false positives

One Spanish lady fought the test and it got thrown out. She for busted for EPO nine years later.Marion Jones too.

Same thing happened with nandrolone.Athletes all jumped on the false positive bandwagon

rekrunner wrote:

Well this was in 2003, in the early years of EPO testing. I have the impression that the mistakes discovered here were valuable lessons learned that led to improved process changes.

biochemist2 wrote:

Thank you for the link Clerk!

I am shock that they relied on only IEF to differentiate between recombinant and endogenous EPO. As discussed in the paper, simple protein modifications can greatly alter the IEP of proteins and cause them to run differently in the gel. This can happen in urine due to the athletes specific physiology, contamination, or some other mishandling of the sample.

I would never trust IEF alone to differentiate. Absolutely correct in the paper that a mAb should be generated that recognizes the glycosylation patter of rEPO.

That's the hope. Not much faith in the testers sadly.

"Throwing Shade" a gay term wrote:

"Throwing Shade" is a gay term, originating in New York and popularized by a Ru Paul song "Don't throw me no shade, I just wanna get paid!"

"Throwing shade" was originally black and gay. The term was coined by the drag queens of the NY ball/voguing circles in the 1980s.

White hipsters first heard about shade in the 1990 movie Paris is Burning:

PS Throwing shade originally required more subtlety than it does now, when it is often just another way of saying "sh*t talking."

Ru Paul is a product of the 80's New York gay club scene. But he was the first to use the term in a song.

Regardless of all the fog revolving around his test, I still have no doubt he doped just based on his time progression as outlined in an earlier post. Way too big of an improvement, and way too fast in his later years. Obviously I have no proof, but I didn't for Lance Armstrong either but never had a doubt.

Lips wrote:

Regardless of all the fog revolving around his test, I still have no doubt he doped just based on his time progression as outlined in an earlier post. Way too big of an improvement, and way too fast in his later years. Obviously I have no proof, but I didn't for Lance Armstrong either but never had a doubt.

Comment on that 'early improvement' always seems to ignore the fact Lagat was 6th in Kenyan Olympic trials in 1996 (3:36?).......in the next 36 months he only ran 3:40 in college (in 3:40 races) but 'improvement' from 6th to 3:34.48 in 1998 seems nothing at all. You could raise the case that he was 3:33/34 level already in 1996 and took some time to settle into new life in US.

Term police wrote:

Can we stop with the "shade" usage? Who says that?

Agreed!

Lips wrote:

Regardless of all the fog revolving around his test, I still have no doubt he doped just based on his time progression as outlined in an earlier post. Way too big of an improvement, and way too fast in his later years. Obviously I have no proof, but I didn't for Lance Armstrong either but never had a doubt.

I agree. It is my belief that Lagat was/is a 3:28-3:29ish runner clean but he doped to get down to 3:26. There was just too much of a green light in that era and his progression seems a little too good to be true. I also think there was smoke with his "false positive." Just my opinion. This doesn't mean he's not an extraordinarily talented runner, but I think he did this to compete with the best.