USATF & Max Siegel Continue Their Powergrab - This Time Against The Youth

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  • The USOC Is Watching
    4 years ago 05/25/2016 6:16pm CDT
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    How freaking lawyered up is this anonymous email from USATF?:

    USATF Action Regarding Youth Executive Committee

    Since January, the USATF National Office and its volunteer Youth Executive Committee have been in a dispute about the selection of the vendor selected to provide registration services for the four (4) national youth championships in 2016. The parties were unable to resolve the dispute, which centers around the ability of the CEO to manage the commercial/business aspects of USATF. As a result of the inability of the parties to find agreement on this issue, USATF's National Office, at the direction of its Board of Directors, initiated a grievance to seek clarity on the issue. USATF's National Office has been proceeding in good faith during the course of the grievance process. The same cannot be said of the volunteer Youth Executive Committee as evidenced by:
    The Youth Executive Committee's repeated refusal to use the registration company selected;
    Conducting secret meetings undermining the integrity of the championship qualification process;
    Circulation of petitions and videos impugning the reputation of the selected vendor;
    Encouraging the use of another registration system, creating chaos and placing thousands of kids at risk of not being able to participate in the national championships.

    Because the volunteers' actions exceeded the scope of volunteer roles and significantly impact the viability of the four youth national championship events, while affecting USATF's ability to fulfill its obligations to its vendors and sponsors, on Tuesday, the USATF Board of Directors convened a conference call to discuss the legal and financial exposure USATF has already incurred as a result of the actions of the Youth Athletics Chair and the Youth Executive Committee that was outside their volunteer scope and authority. Without immediate action, the damage to USATF athletes, vendors, sponsors and reputation would be irreparable. Accordingly, the board as the fiduciary body of USATF voted, 11-1, to suspend the entire Youth Executive Committee and its chairman, Lionel Leach.

    All 2016 USATF Youth events will continue as normal. Specific directions to USATF Associations for athlete registration have been sent directly to Associations.
  • Coach D
    registered
    4 years ago 05/25/2016 6:24pm CDT
    re: The USOC Is Watching
    Forum Index
    Youth is the largest organization inside USATF with something like 70% of USATF members simply to compete in the Junior Olympics. Leach is probably the strongest opponent of the Siegel and the Board. Notice the language:

    "while affecting USATF's ability to fulfill its obligations to its vendors and sponsors"

    I take it that Lionel Leach might have decided to do something totally outrageous like non-Nike merchandise/uniforms.
  • The USOC Is Watching
    4 years ago 05/25/2016 6:43pm CDT
    re: coach d
    Forum Index
    Nope. Just a registration company.....

    USATF has been working to neuter all committees. All committees.

    Overriding both men's and women's LDRs to put the Olympic Trials Marathon on a hot shadeless stretch of L.A. blight at noon. F' the athletes. Max Siegel needs his late night cocktail parties.
  • kjVC
    4 years ago 05/25/2016 8:45pm CDT
    re: The USOC Is Watching
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    USATF FIRES LIONEL LEACH!!

    ABOUT TIME.

    Remember, he called out Stephanie Hightower in a very public email, but he's been abusing his "power" lately and is paying for it.
  • vu2max
    4 years ago 05/26/2016 8:55am CDT
    re: The USOC Is Watching
    Forum Index
    I got this email yesterday too. I hadn't heard there were problems with USATF Youth programs. Does anyone have any additional information?
  • The Daily Dysfunction
    4 years ago 05/26/2016 9:46am CDT
    re: The USOC Is Watching
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    From all I've ever seen, Leach is as much a part of the dysfunction at USATF as Hightower and Siegel even if they are feuding now.

    Regardless of personalities, having the USATF trying to run professional/ Olympic track and field together with youth track and field inside the same organization is one of USATF's underlying problems.
  • Interesting observation
    4 years ago 05/26/2016 2:44pm CDT
    re: The USOC Is Watching
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    Coach D is the OP who then answered his own 1st post.
  • Times they are a changing
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 6:52am CDT
    re: Interesting observation
    Forum Index
    Best thing USATF could have done for youth athletics. Now they need to find new leadership that actually care about what is in the best interest of the kids and can leave their ego's home. This is all over a entry system, does it really matter? At the end of the day the same data and results are processed.
  • sowing seed
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 11:21am CDT
    re: Times they are a changing
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    Leach is a Hightower appointee. He then played the race card against Hightower. I think he compared himself to Martin Luther King and her to Alabama Gov. George Wallace.

    As a crony of Hightower, this shouldn't have surprised her.

    But I guess her and Max thought they were the only ones who could play the race card, so they had to get rid of their competition.

    What an ugly, ugly mess they've created. They all need to leave the sport for good.
  • anotherrunner
    registered
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 12:09pm CDT
    re: Times they are a changing
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    I'm on the board, well sort of - just do the communications - for a small USATF Association. At our last board meeting in mid May it was basically told to us that a whole bunch of youth coaches, parents, etc. were having trouble with the new registration site. I believe the new one is Athletic.net whereas they were using CoachO before. Most of us just rolled our eyes and said "what's the big deal" and we all tried it in the meeting and it worked fine. Neither of them are the worlds greatest registration sites, but we got through the new one with no issues.

    One of the old guys in the group mentioned it's going to be a tough transition because everyone was used to the old site, but it shouldn't be a big deal and whatever questions or problems arise we can probably handle it.

    It sounds to me like this was just a lot of people who didn't want to change websites because they were used to something, it was ridiculous. I'm guessing there is more to it, like how did Athletic.net get this contract without a bid or maybe there was a non-transparent bid process, but that's unknown to me. The bigger issue sounded like just a resistance to change because we have to learn how to type our name into a different box.
  • Nope Not True
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 1:17pm CDT
    re: sowing seed
    Forum Index
    sowing seed wrote:

    Leach is a Hightower appointee.

    I believe Leach was elected as Youth chair, not appointed.
  • Change is bueno
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 1:45pm CDT
    re: anotherrunner
    Forum Index
    anotherrunner wrote:

    I'm on the board, well sort of - just do the communications - for a small USATF Association. At our last board meeting in mid May it was basically told to us that a whole bunch of youth coaches, parents, etc. were having trouble with the new registration site. I believe the new one is Athletic.net whereas they were using CoachO before. Most of us just rolled our eyes and said "what's the big deal" and we all tried it in the meeting and it worked fine. Neither of them are the worlds greatest registration sites, but we got through the new one with no issues.

    One of the old guys in the group mentioned it's going to be a tough transition because everyone was used to the old site, but it shouldn't be a big deal and whatever questions or problems arise we can probably handle it.

    It sounds to me like this was just a lot of people who didn't want to change websites because they were used to something, it was ridiculous. I'm guessing there is more to it, like how did Athletic.net get this contract without a bid or maybe there was a non-transparent bid process, but that's unknown to me. The bigger issue sounded like just a resistance to change because we have to learn how to type our name into a different box.

    If what you say is true, I'm with you. It's 2016, people. Look at the field name and enter the appropriate information. It's not hard.
  • actual userr
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 2:16pm CDT
    re: Change is bueno
    Forum Index
    I was unaware of all the gnashing of teeth but I can say this as a regular user of CoachO...its a good service, and people know how to use it, so I would tend to favor keeping it.

    Athletic is probably fine too, I believe the indoor youth national may have used it. We did not attend but I did look into registration while we were deciding whether or not to go and it seemed like some learning curve, new logins, etc etc Anything new is a pain, right? We elected not to go b/c of the location (far).

    I know that the indoor regional qualifiers were cancelled and national was opened to anyone and I wonder if this was people not wanting to go to NY or people not interested in the new system? Or some other reason?

    In summary:
    1. If its not broke, don't fix it. And it wasn't broke, imo.

    2. I don't think HQ should strong-arm associations (if that is happening, I don't know) on how to conduct local or regional meet registration. Our outdoor qualifier is on CoachO so maybe I'm misreading all this.

    Can anyone confirm what is going on or what the actual dispute is?
  • wejo
    cofounder
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 5:54pm CDT
    re: The USOC Is Watching
    Forum Index
    A few things.

    1) I know none of the particulars.

    2) USATF has a close relationship with Runnerspace which does USATF+ and owns athletic.net.

    3) An 11-1 vote is a strong vote.

    Those were my original thoughts so I would tend to side with the board. Then I remembered the board voted 11-1 to put Stephanie Hightower on the IAAF Council against everyone's wishes. The Board thus can terribly suffer from group think.

    Does anyone know who the lone dissenting vote was? I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt.

    But someone fill me in why we care what registration company is used? One should be selected, and it should be easy to enter the meet. The fees to use it should be nominal. It shouldn't be a revenue generator for anyone, it's an expense. What am I missing?
  • Brought to you by RS
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 9:07pm CDT
    re: actual userr
    Forum Index
    It was used for the indoor Hershey meet and two zones that were forced to go through a qualifier due to the meet being to large if opened for all.

    The reason the other zones were cancelled was because the youth committee refused to use athletic.net so it was their was to boycot the system. It has nothing to do with NY, NY was the largest indoor meet by far with close to 3,000 kids and the best run youth meet we have attended in a long time.

    The dispute is simply over a struggle for power and control, it's called life and sometimes it's not fair. Letting ego's hurt the kids isn't helping anyone. The National office made a decision and that's now it goes, engage it and learn the system, it's not difficult.

    Look into who owns athletic.net and your answer as to why they were selected will be answered.
  • Brought to you by RS
    4 years ago 05/27/2016 9:10pm CDT
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    A few things.

    1) I know none of the particulars.

    2) USATF has a close relationship with Runnerspace which does USATF+ and owns athletic.net.

    3) An 11-1 vote is a strong vote.

    Those were my original thoughts so I would tend to side with the board. Then I remembered the board voted 11-1 to put Stephanie Hightower on the IAAF Council against everyone's wishes. The Board thus can terribly suffer from group think.

    Does anyone know who the lone dissenting vote was? I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt.

    But someone fill me in why we care what registration company is used? One should be selected, and it should be easy to enter the meet. The fees to use it should be nominal. It shouldn't be a revenue generator for anyone, it's an expense. What am I missing?

    The system that is used has to 1) verify members, pull rosters, and confirm age verification 2) must be quick and user friendly some youth teams have 200 kids and that can take a coach hours to submit entries. It's all about Runnerspace as you mentioned, wejo.
  • polevaultpower
    registered
    4 years ago 05/28/2016 12:19am CDT
    re: coach d
    Forum Index
    coach d wrote:
    I take it that Lionel Leach might have decided to do something totally outrageous like non-Nike merchandise/uniforms.

    No, nothing like that. Just registration, but it's a big contract and one that Max doesn't think Lionel has the ability to sign without National Office approval.
  • polevaultpower
    registered
    4 years ago 05/28/2016 12:40am CDT
    re: The USOC Is Watching
    Forum Index
    As a coach/team admin, I have registered a lot of athletes for meets. I have used CoachO for our USATF Youth Team, and have used DirectAthletics, Athletic.net, and the USATF Registration system.

    BY FAR, athletic.net is the best of all of those at doing team registrations. BY FAR. A MILLION TIMES FASTER AND BETTER.

    I have not used them for a USATF youth meet yet, and I have no idea how their payment processing is.

    Switching vendors was going to be complicated either way. DirectAthletics also would have had to add new programming to sync with the USATF database.

    So I don't know what kinks athletic.net had this winter, but I did log in and check my youth team, and it has all of their USATF numbers, ages, age verification, etc. And those are fields I can't change.

    My understanding of the situation, which may not be 100% accurate since I try to avoid Youth drama, and Lionel isn't known for transparency, is this:
    - The youth contract with Coach O was up.
    - Lionel, for whatever reason, wanted to switch to DirectAthletics.
    - Part of this switch also involved all of the Associations switching from using Hy-Tek to run their meets, to MeetPro.
    - Max said he had complaints about this, and that the National Office looked into this and found that Athletic.net could handle registration AND be compatible with whatever meet timing software. So the people who like Hy-Tek can use Hy-Tek, the people looking to change could change.
    - National Office tells Youth to change. Youth says no.
    - Max files grievance against Lionel over this, which he said was an effort to get clarity (Weldon, this was mentioned at the Board meeting you attended)
    - Grievance process has NOT finished yet, in the middle of all of it, the Board has a conference call meeting and suspends a ton of people.
    - Now we have a giant clusterf*** because all of the suspended people wear lots of other hats like Association Presidents, Officials, etc.
    - I'm pretty sure most of those Associations are going to tell the National Office to go to hell and ignore the suspension.


    Which system is better is kind of a moot point. Any of them could have worked given the opportunity. At this point, Athletic.net is set up and ready to go, whatever Associations think of this mess, they should obey the order to use it for their JO meet because I would not be surprised if the National Office kept their word and refused to allow kids to advance if the meets don't use it.

    Which would probably just drive most of those kids to AAU, the real winner in this power struggle.

    The big issue at this point is the power struggle. Does the National Office really have the right to override Youth on this issue? Can the Board really suspend all of these people without a hearing?

    And one can't help but wonder if this is an effort to block Lionel from his campaign to be the next President of USA Track & Field. Which would be total BS, because love or hate Lionel, he should be given the opportunity to run.
  • polevaultpower
    registered
    4 years ago 05/28/2016 12:47am CDT
    re: polevaultpower
    Forum Index
    And no offense, but power struggles aside, this vendor issue was avoidable.

    We are tearing the organization apart over a dispute over which third party vendor is better, when USATF already does their own meet registration (badly). Open and Masters are forced to use it.

    It's fine for single entries, but it essentially has no team entries, as a team admin you do many individual entries. I've spent HOURS doing my team's registrations for Club Cross and it is torturous.

    So after months of emails that went nowhere on this topic, I went to Associations Workshop a few years ago and sat down with their IT guys and showed them athletic.net and how amazing it was for team registration and then showed them how much their registration sucked.

    Then all those people didn't work there anymore and I repeated that process with new employees at the Annual Meeting and then they didn't work there anymore and now I believe USATF outsources IT stuff and doesn't even have anyone in house for that stuff.

    What they need to do is scrap the membership database and the event registration system and rebuild from scratch, with 21st century technology. Might as well rebuild the website from scratch while they're at it.

    If you spend the money now (and we're flush with cash, right???), you could recoup that money big time down the road, when you have all of the youth registrations being handled in house.
  • Not correct
    4 years ago 05/28/2016 4:17am CDT
    re: polevaultpower
    Forum Index
    A lot of misinformation in those last two posts.