16-year old Kate Murphy guns down Marielle Hall - Runs 4:14.26 at Swarthmore - #6 all-time

Note to the list: Alexa Efraimson was still in High School but competing as a pro last year when she ran the AJR of 4:03.

Note also that 4:15 i roughly equivalent to 4:00 for boys, and with three girls already under that mark, it is up to probably Austin Tamagno to match with a third boy's sub-4 for the greatest combined miler depth in U.S. prep history.

Wow almost all the fastest 1500 times are in the last 5-8 years.. we are in a golden age of girls high school distance running!!

Ella Donaghu is now #7 😭

A few random things from the meet since I was there. I'll post this in both threads.

1) Race Videos:

Women's 1500:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-_KmJxBAyg&feature=youtu.be

Men's Elite 1500:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMPS47TZDSg

Men's Top Non-Pro 1500 (rabbited by Nick Willis):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtv2ZhNyecY&feature=youtu.be

*I wish I could have got some interviews, but I was on a tight schedule and didn't have time.

2) W1500: If you watch the women's 1500 video you'll see that Ajee Wilson rabbited Marielle Hall up until 1 lap to go and Hall had a huge gap on Kate Murphy. I hand time it at about 3.75 seconds at the bell and then Murphy closed in 66.0 to just nip Hall. Great race.

3) Torrence: I was pretty impressed by David Torrence's move to get the win in the final 50m. He was boxed in and had to go around everyone to get the win (and the Olympic standard). *Video set to start at the finish; Torrence in 4th place:

https://youtu.be/fMPS47TZDSg?t=3m18s

4) Lee Emanuel: I don't think it's been mentioned, but tough break for Lee Emanuel. He missed the standard by .09 today and this is after missing it by only .15 last year. This is an outdoor PB for him, but he ran 3:35 last year in indoors 3-months before the qualification window started. That's just rough luck.

5) Nick Willis is in great shape and a class act: Before he rabbitted the pro race, Willis had rabbited the top collegiate race which was won by Iona's Liam Dee in 3:42. Willis took them through 1 to go (I didn't get a watch on it, but I'm pretty sure they were about 2-flat at 800 and if they ran 3:42 that sounds about right).

Then 30-minutes later (there were 5 more sections of 1500s) he rabbited the pro race, but the surprising part to me as I watched was that he went all the way through 200m to go. I expected him to drop with 400 to go and then surely at the 1200 mark, but he just kept going and at that point I thought he was going to finish the race. Now in retrospect it's obvious to me he really was trying to help his countrymen get the Olympic standard. Julian Matthews did and Hamish Carson just missed by .05. Running 1100m at 4-flat pace and then running 1300m of a 3:36 race 30minutes later (doing all the leading in both races) is a pretty solid workout to say the least.

6) Robby Andrews Sighting: Robby Andrews was at the meet hanging out as a spectator. That's a perk of already having the standard from last year or indoors. You don't have to be chasing fast times in May.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Efraimson's fantastic 800? She is still very young (19?), and has run 2 flat in the 800m.. It bodes VERY well for her 1500m speed. She is going great guns at the moment - looks strong, fast and impressive - ready to compete at the top level in the 1500m.

Going under the radar while Cain got all the attention seems to have worked well for her (as going pro seems to have - at least, so far).

errrrr wrote:

Wow almost all the fastest 1500 times are in the last 5-8 years.. we are in a golden age of girls high school distance running!!

The 1500 isn't really a high school event. They run mostly 1600/mile.

With more and more high schoolers running in college and open meets (whether this is good or not), you should the 1500 list fill in a little.

Obviously there has been some great HS talent as of late though, and these girls should be applauded.

YMMV wrote:

Note to the list: Alexa Efraimson was still in High School but competing as a pro last year when she ran the AJR of 4:03.

Note also that 4:15 i roughly equivalent to 4:00 for boys, and with three girls already under that mark, it is up to probably Austin Tamagno to match with a third boy's sub-4 for the greatest combined miler depth in U.S. prep history.

Hard to believe that all of the top 1500 hs g times are from 2013 to 2016.

I don't think it is reasonable to call 4:15 girls 1500m roughly equivalent to 4:00 mile for boys. 4 flat is less than 17 seconds off the world mile record for men, while 4:15 is 25 seconds off the women's 1500m world record. 4 flat mile is relatively harder. remember that there has been hard training for the high school boys in the mile going back many years longer. women couldn't even compete above 800m in the Olympics in the years when the first three boys sub 4 mile took place.

I see the validity with this; certainly a straight percentage conversion of times gives 4:08 W1500m as a 4:00 Mmile equivalent. On the other hand, the IAAF tables give the equivalence at 4:16.67, probably due to differential in depth curves, etc.. To some extent, unfortunately, this discrepancy is due to the "doping differential" between the benefit androgenic PEDs give to enhance women's performance compared to men (it is noticeably more). We could probably occupy another thread entirely on where exactly the equivalence should fall. 4:15 certainly is a benchmark for HS girls, especially considering that one of the all-time greats, Jordan Hasay, was the first to break it, so if only historical purposes, I will stick with that.

tj wrote:

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Efraimson's fantastic 800? She is still very young (19?), and has run 2 flat in the 800m.. It bodes VERY well for her 1500m speed. She is going great guns at the moment - looks strong, fast and impressive - ready to compete at the top level in the 1500m.

Going under the radar while Cain got all the attention seems to have worked well for her (as going pro seems to have - at least, so far).

2:00.99

Might as well call that 2:01 ... But still quick.

Not too surprised by this time. She looked very controlled in her Penn Relays 4:37 DMR anchor in lousy conditions (42 degrees and moderate rain).

Convert the 1500 to the 1600 then, and you'll find that most of the fast times are still in the last 8 years.

The problem is that you cannot really compare men and women's times linearly like so many people on here do, because the difference is actually more like exponential. The reason for this is because of things like the top women having "straighter bodies", i.e. bodies shaped more like men, that give them an advantage over the rest of the women. The men have no such advantage.

errrrr wrote:

Convert the 1500 to the 1600 then, and you'll find that most of the fast times are still in the last 8 years.

You are correct, but it also makes the recent1500s look less like extreme outliers (Cain and Efraimson excluded).

in NY the 1500 is the main event for women/girls NOT the 1600/mile as you state....

Rockwoodhall wrote:

in NY the 1500 is the main event for women/girls NOT the 1600/mile as you state....

Good for them for being different.

Bring Back the 880 wrote:

Rockwoodhall wrote:

in NY the 1500 is the main event for women/girls NOT the 1600/mile as you state....

Good for them for being different.

or in tune with the rest of the world.

Katie Rainsberger, Ella Donaghu and Christina Aragon are racing in Oregon in June. Kate Murphy would make it a head-to-head-to-head-to-head of four of the top-7 1500 runners of all time!

It is obvious when some prideful person tries to protect their own legacy or that of their era. These young ladies are rewriting the mile records as well. Celebrate them and stop hating. These girls are letting the college coaches that it is time to adapt. They might want to go talk with these college coaches about what they are doing.

You have got to be kidding me. Look at the number of guys that are breaking 4 lately. It's not that fast, but Americans have had their head up their ass with respect to 4:00. Now I will say that girls/women have an advantage, they can have decent guys pace them. Top notch guys don't have that ability.

Last point, slower times for the girls=greater differential between the world record and high school times.