How An Older Guy Ran 30 Miles Yesterday On A Whim

70...if ever, applies to me. Fortunately I love my work and live frugally so am able to save and take time to travel and develop my serious hobbies. I told my dad, who retired at 65, that I was taking my retirement on the installment plan. He saw some wisdom in this, bless his heart.I've had friends retire in their 40's and not make it to 50, so that might color my approach.

Beevie wrote:

The great thing about Boomers is that they get to retire in their 50s. The rest of us are looking at 67-70, if ever.

Beevie wrote:

The great thing about Boomers is that they get to retire in their 50s. The rest of us are looking at 67-70, if ever.

Born in 1958 so a later "boomer", but I can guarantee you, very few of us my age, or 5-10 years older, are retiring or retired in our 50s. We are all hoping by 67 or so, but very few of us know we can retire then for sure.

I am 65 and not retired. I do not know why someone would retire just to train more, or sit on their duff for that matter. I find the intellectual challenge of working stimulating. I still have plenty of time to run and do other hobbies or interests.

I currently have a very small but growing business and will start another in the next year or so. I'll take my installment plan of time "off" to train hard or develop new material (writer), but retirement won't be official until the coroner puts a tag on my toe.

YMMV,

Wall Street veteran and 83 year-old Byron Wien says "live forever, never retire."

Igy

I'm in the mountains working on a rock climb that eventually will be 2000' (600m) in total. Hot, dirty work and with highs in the upper 90s we get on the wall by 7 AM and off by 1PM. Yesterday I took a siesta and woke up with the urge to at least get in an easy jog (did sprint work/drill PM before). Ended up with a glorious 15-mile trail run gaining 3800' up and back, temp was 89 when I started (only 20%humidity) and 82 when finished.

This was the first time I've used a hydration vest, and it was awesome, as much for the pocket for the bug spray as the water. Those devils were on a big hatch in the alpine meadows and they all wanted a piece of my old hide. Still feeling keto-adapted and almost a strange lack of aches and pains, though my calf got tight on the descent through a particularly rocky and loose section (it loosened back up). With "spur of the moment" runs like this happening on the regular, I am feeling better about my big run in August.

Also, my bifurcated "sprint day or ultra day" approach to training seems to be working well. Last week was 56 miles with a track meet included and I felt like my body is absorbing all the stressors well.

test

Did my longest single run so far this year: 22 miles. Felt really good the first two hours (around 8:00 pace on flats), but got a little bonky the third hour. I think this is because I have been going a little heavier on the carbs (found Pink Lady apples for $1/lb!). Next long run I will make an effort to get more into ketogenic mode with carb restriction + intermittent fasting. Super happy on the biomechanical front, as a persistent ankle niggle cleared up after the first few miles and while I had fatigue I had no niggles the last 3/4 of the way.

I have also kept up on sprint training with drills/strides and a session of 10x45 sec w/2:00 rest. This session seemed to awaken my lactate-processing system; it certainly had that familiar pain of the old 800-training days. This was in a week of 54 miles (this was last week), so overall the sprint/slow training is getting pretty solid in terms of volume.

I also began the biggest climbing development project I've take on in at least 15 years, thanks to having a motivated and competent partner who shares my vision of what is possible in that realm. All-in-all, it feels like a Renaissance Season, the likes of which I haven't had in at least a decade.

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Last weekend I upped the training ante by going for a single-push (with 45 min rest/rain break) 5-hour, 30-mile run in the mountains. Elevation varied from 200-4800'. This was a referendum on my basic fitness for attempting a 60-mile/2-day alpine run/climb next month.

With almost no caveats, I feel I passed this one with flying colors. Of my 60+K mile, 45-year running career, this goes down as one of those "game-changer" runs which pivot your running career and provide motivation for years thereafter. It is the longest single run I've done in my life, and it came so easily, without big mileage buildups or specialized training. A huge aspect is that I did this entire run on one Paleo bar with only 5g of carbs (20g protein,10g fat). In other words, completely free of the usual gels, sugar drinks, carb munchies etc., that I would have taken on any run past two hours in the past. Even my 22-miler last month had a "bonk" in the final hour, as I had strayed on the nutrition and had been eating more carbs. I corrected course for this run, keeping my carbs below 100g/day.

The result of my fat-adapted diet and training is that I DIDN'T BONK. In fact, after the first hour in which I shook out a nagging hamstring/glute issue (nothing like starting the longest run of your life with a nascent injury nagging the first few steps/miles), the last three hours were smooth, enjoyable, even euphoric. I didn't wear a watch (battery died), but on the flats I was averaging probably in the 9-minute range, but mostly it was on soft roads and trails with a few more technical sections (not as tricky as some I will see on my 60-miler, but I will train those specifically in coming weeks).

After the run I experienced NO SORENESS. Quite the opposite, while my legs felt "worked" in terms of having done something major, but on my subsequent run two days later, I felt so biomechanically sound that I spontaneously turned a few strides into a decent 15x200 "speed" session ("speed" being relative to a 59-year old who just ran 30 miles two days prior).

I call this biomechanically blessed state "Ironic Legs" as it is the opposite of the beat-up feeling one usually expects and also they felt solid as iron, like I could keep doing this indefinitely. It coincides with what I have read among elite low-carb ultra guys: incredible recoveries form long runs and races.

The next big step will be to go to the prospective course and work out the specific route, complete with some more technical climbing sections.

Nice going. I've been thinking of going this route with diet. Just can't quite pull the trigger. Maybe soon. Have to get my head straight. Keep it up.

You're my new hero. Please keep posting.

Ca$hclay wrote:

You're my new hero. Please keep posting.

Will do. Thanks for the support.

Today I watched this video twice before my run. It is the best technique video I have seen:

Right now almost all my running is either easy ("race" pace for 60 miles, lol) or sprint/drill work. My long-term goal is to build a great base both aerobically using Maffetone-type aerobic training, as well as developing my speed with power, strength and technique. At this point the aerobic is doing very well and the speed is slowly coming along. By this time next year I will likely be competing 400-1500 on the track.

During todays run, I picked up a couple of rocks weighing about 6 lbs, one in each hand carried them along for a few miles. It felt like it was good work for my core, as I had to keep my arms "quiet" and stay stable in my hips back and shoulders. I tend to pump my arms a bit excessively, especially on hills, so focusing on a quiet upper body is important to improve my economy.

The above video reinforces something: Back in my 40's when I was running lifetime PRs in shorter distances (including 55 for 400), I ran most of my runs in minimalist footwear (racing flats and spikes, some barefoot). In my 50s, recovering from a hellacious case of Haglund's, I shifted to Hokas and heavily cushioned, zero-drop footwear. The upside has been fewer lower leg issues, but the big downside is that my feet and ankles have gotten weak, really cutting into my speed. My new resolution is to run half my sessions at least in minimal footwear and do drills etc to beef up my pushoff.

At T-3 weeks from my alpine run, I was reasonably confident in my overall fitness, as evidenced by my amazing 30-miler. My next step was to focus on the technical aspects of dealing with a variety of alpine challenges, up to and including climbing 5th class terrain ropeless (As a climber of 40+ years experience, I am comfortable on solid terrain up to 5.7-5.8 without a rope).

It is one thing to hike up to a mountain peak and carefully deal with exposed technical climbing, quite another to run, right at aerobic threshhold and do the same.

So yesterday, I chose to repeat a car-to-summit run of a nearby peak that I have done a number of times in the past, most recently seven years ago while I had been working on a major climbing project on the peak (a 5.12 free climb). When I timed that run, I had been working on the peak for over a week, and so was both fairly acclimatized to the 8000' altitude and very familiar with the easier climbing route to the summit (difficulties up to 5.6 over a span of 500'). So I considered my time of 1:15 for that run (from 5400') to be very solid. When I set out yesterday I would have been very happy with a time within 10 minutes of that, considering my lack of acclimatization or recent climbing on the route.

My main concern was with hydration, since highs were expected in the mid-80's and the route faces South, and my start was late (11 AM). I carried a liter of water in my Ultraspire vest, but only ended up drinking 0.75 liters of it. What I wasn't quite prepared for was getting hit by the altitude hard when I reached 7000' after 25 minutes, which include a 1000' of scrambling on white granite slabs. My heart rate skyrocketed and my head felt like it was being squeezed. I was walking at this point but had to rest for a minute to regain my equilibrium. Any hope of finishing under 1:30 overall was out the window. I began to feel better, and after a while I looked up to see the col (pass) at the beginning of the climbing route just ahead. Glancing at my watch I realized I was ahead of my previous record pace! I focused the last few minutes and reached the col in 55 minutes, 5 minutes faster than on my PR.

I put on my climbing shoes and the subsequent climb was very pleasant and I took my time, both for safety and the sake of pleasure (some really nice moves and positions).

I summited in 1:15, so I lost the five minutes I had gained reaching the col, but I was not complaining. I had summited at least 10 minutes faster than I expected and felt great! I met some climbers coming up from another route and chatted with them, and met another party on the way down. The run back on the hiking trail felt great and I was back at the car in a casual three hours, for an ascent which would easily take twice that for a solid party.

I spent the rest of the afternoon bouldering in a beautiful alpine meadow. My quads tightened up, but re-loosened with the climbing. This morning I feel pleasantly tired with no aches pains or stiffness.

I feel I am in the best aerobic condition I've been in for at least ten years, with only a fraction of the effort expended in the past. My actual running mileage is around 35 miles/week (when not doing a very long run), yet I feel as fit, even more fit, as when I used to train 50+/week. I am very excited for some great alpine running in the near future!

You are a huge inspiration. Keep updating this thread!!

Repost from a thread discussion on physiology and pacing in the 800m (some really seemed to appreciate the explanation):

YMMV wrote:

What the troll named bgh, and most others, don't understand is that the physical demands of each event change AND SO DOES THE PHYSIOLOGY OF EACH ATHLETE WHO SPECIALIZES IN THEM. Take two runners running 800m. One is a 400m runner, who can tolerate 17mmole lactate without breaking down in form or pace. The other is a 3000m guy, who cannot acquire more than 7 mmole, as he has not done the lactate-tolerance work and is not genetically predisposed.

If both do the first 100m in say, 13.0 sec, the physiological effect is very different. For the 3K guy, he sprinting all out, and will soon have to drop from the race. The 400 guy is comfortable and can continue, with a gradual slowdown, for an overall positive split, say of 26/28/28/30=1:51. The 400 guy wins of course.

If instead the 3k guy goes out in say, 14.0 sec the first 100, then his lactate is tolerable (under 7mmole), and he can continue without decrease of pace, as his superior aerobic engine dissipates any further addition of lactate. So running this way, he can run 27/28/28/28 and contend at the wire for the win. So two athletes, two strategies for the win.

Now the 800 specialist has the lactate tolerance of the 400 guy, and also the aerobic support of the 3K (or at least 1.5K) guy. So his best race will fall in between the two: 27/28/28/29. So you can see where the typical 2-sec. positive split for an elite 800 race comes from. For those who are chosen and train the event, it has a "special" characteristic, due to a higher lactate tolerance than found in distance events. Distance races do not start out near a sprint the first 100m, as it would impose too high a lactate load for the remainder of the race. For the 800 it can be done, due to the special training (and genetics, not all runners can build high lactate)

This effect is even greater in the 400. No top 400 runner will ever win against serious competition with even splits. They would feel as if they are jogging the first 200 and losing the benefit of accumulating lactate to run a faster overall time.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7499401&page=5#ixzz4FvXiloNw

Update with three weeks to go:

After my great mountain run (last post), I went to the course I am training for ("SRT") in order to check out a course tweak that would take it through some incredible climbing terrain. I accessed via THE rockiest trail I have ever attempted to "run", kind of a demoralizer before I even left the trail to go cross-country on rough terrain to the rock portion.

Nonetheless, I reached the rock peak in good time, and climbed some fantastic pitches up to (very steep and exposed) 5.6, climbing past a mountain goat at the start. I continued over the summit and went on past two easier summits, when I ran into a barrier of severely overhanging, loose rock. So I ejected downhill, only to encounter extensive cliffbands and brush, finally reaching the trail again just in time to get out before dark (I had no headlamp).

I did pretty well with hydration, again minimal carbs (an apple and some dried cranberries along with nuts and cheese). I carried a collapsible trekking pole (invaluable in steep heather and scree) and my comfy rock shoes which I swapped with my new Altra Lone Peak 2.0's. The latter performed awesome in the extreme terrain (NO trips, which were a big problem with my Hokas), and were extremely comfortable. Two thumbs up.

The whole trip was 9 hours with only a few ten minute breaks. Definitely more taxing than either my 30-miler and car-to-peak PR, pretty much as if one was stacked on the other, due to the gnarly terrain (I have scrambled in the mountains for 40+ years, and this trip was among the most challenging). Nevertheless, when I finally got to runnable, flattish terrain, my stride returned and I felt very strong the last few miles.

While I didn't find a way through for this new detour (I will stick to the originally planned course), I did rise to the challenge of the terrain, and I am confident in handling whatever the 60-mile SRT loop throws my way on that score. As a bonus, I wasn't sore afterwards despite the rockiness and length. A real effect of the high fat/high protein seems to be remarkable recovery.

I am planning my last long run early this next week, then will go for my "Ultratour SRT" on or near the 30th.

As a bonus, I seem to have overcome a glitch in my ankle/foot that was messing up my sprinting. Last night I did 12 x 100 on the track in spikes for the first time this year, and things feel great this AM.

Keep us updated! This is a great thread. Inspiring stuff! Good luck!!