Marathon Race Pace from Half Results

Hey everyone, sorry to bump this thread again. Decided on focusing on Boston 2018 so I'll be running my first marathon in February. I'm starting in week 15 of the Pfitz 18/70. I don't exactly have the mileage buildup of 50, but I've been doing about 35-40 a week since July.

I ran 15:45 for 3 miles a month ago and paced a half marathon this last weekend with a girlfriend in 1:36.

With the goal pace of 2:50 that we talked about, McMillan says my long run pace should be between 7:49 and 9:04, with tempos between 6:55 and 7:12, and easy runs between 7:45 and 8:46.

I basically do all of my runs less than 13 miles under 7:20 pace. I will typically drop down from the low 7s to 6:40s on most of my runs...I realize that as my mileage increases it will probably be more difficult to hold my pace, but I'm just kind of puzzled as to what paces I should actually be running. If I go slower than 7:30 pace it actually hurts my legs. I realize I'm probably just going to be told to run whatever pace I want, but with Marathon training basically entirely focusing on tempos/long runs it'd help to just have a pace to keep in mind.

Advice?

I'd definitely go with alternating water/sports drink at every aid station. I'll be running my 4th marathon this April and sweat a lot as well. I think I need to look into some salt tablets as well as I've been notoriously cramping in the last mile or two and its driving me nuts.

Gel-wise, I usually use Gu. They're a little thick normally, but after they sit in my short pocket for about 40 minutes they usually are a little thinner and easier to take. Any time I took a gel, I'd always wash it down with water and not a sports drink. I'd usually take one with me that had a little caffeine in it but might turn away from thinking that might be causing some of the cramping. I think Gu recommends every ~45 minutes to take another gel so that's what I've typically stuck to.

Hope this helps.

It's cool when people bump threads for updates from months ago.

But are those tempo paces right? Usually the tempo runs are faster than MP. Those are quite a bit slower.

Also, that's a solid half for your girlfriend.

FWIW I ran a 2:47 off a 1:22 half. If I were as quick as you over shorter distances I'd be looking for a 2:42-2:43. Good luck.

I have no idea. I just went to McMillan and put what I ran in the half recently and the 2:50 goal into it and these were the times that popped out. That's what was confusing me so much. I would assume that a 6:30 MP would mean I should be tempoing at like 5:50-6? LR pace would be like 7:00?

Yeah, her 1/2 pr is 1:32 but personally I think she is faster than that...that's a whole different topic though haha :)

If people are actually interested in the training and want to make a thread together, I'd be more than happy to join in! Otherwise I'll just obnoxiously post in here in the future.

I bet something was off by a minute there. 5:50 to 6 something seems right for tempo, 6:30 MP, and then low 7s for most long efforts.

There is a weekly thread that pops up called "Road Racing/Training Thread week xxxx" and the dates. There are a few doing fall marathons posting in there and a few people gearing up for spring (including Boston). The thread tends to pop up every Sunday afternoon/evening, so keep an eye out for it.

fear of 26.2 wrote:

boxyshoes wrote:

3:05 is going to be a piece of cake for you. When I ran 2:43, I ran 1:18 for the half, but my mileage was high, 80-100 mpw. 2:50 would probably be a good, somewhat conservative goal.

This. LRC promotes too much fear of the marathon. If a 1:18 half marathon can't break 3:00 easily, they didn't train properly for the marathon, or ran the marathon in 70F heat. 2:50

Agreed. I've never been within 90 seconds of a 1:18 in the half but I've broken 2:50 three times. Aim for 2:50-55 first half then try to negative split it.

I got cold feet and bailed on the February marathon. I ran the half instead and finished in 1:14:59 off of around 45-50 MPW. I think the longest workout I did was a 6 mile tempo, most of it was longer intervals on the track (800-1600 range). I know the importance of getting in mileage, but everything starts to kinda break down once I get past that 50 mpw sweet spot. Maybe doing everything in the low 7's is too much and I'm not getting enough recovery, but I just keep worrying that finishing a marathon is exponentially harder if I am running less than 65 miles a week.

I thoroughly enjoyed racing in the half, much more than I ever did in cross/track. I really want to test myself in these longer distances, but I just keep psyching myself out.

Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but you all gave me great advice before. Hopefully I can bump this thread once more and tell you that I've actually completed my first marathon.

fear of 26.2 wrote:

boxyshoes wrote:

3:05 is going to be a piece of cake for you. When I ran 2:43, I ran 1:18 for the half, but my mileage was high, 80-100 mpw. 2:50 would probably be a good, somewhat conservative goal.

This. LRC promotes too much fear of the marathon. If a 1:18 half marathon can't break 3:00 easily, they didn't train properly for the marathon, or ran the marathon in 70F heat. 2:50

Completely agree. Though I'd be more aggressive with the goal. I ran 2:47-high off a 1:22-low and 70mpw. Sub-2:45 should be a lock.

Congrats on the great half result!

If you aren't able to go past 50 mpw, maybe do the Pfitz 55 plan instead of 70?

I'm confused why you are using McMillan to determine your paces, when you choose for a Pfitz plan. His book Advanced Marathoning tells exactly the paces for your recovery runs, general aerobic, tempo...

Thank you! To be honest an old coworker just ripped out the training schedule pages from his first edition since he got the second edition. So I never actually bought the book...I would just use McMillan to check out their suggested paces.

NoVis Pepper wrote:

Thank you! To be honest an old coworker just ripped out the training schedule pages from his first edition since he got the second edition. So I never actually bought the book...I would just use McMillan to check out their suggested paces.

You should get the latest edition and actually read the book. It will help you a lot. I don't think you can correctly follow the schedules without reading the book.

You can find his book pretty cheap. Or find it online even cheaper.

If you don't like Pfitz, try Jack Daniels, he also has plans for the marathon.

NoVis Pepper wrote:

I got cold feet and bailed on the February marathon. I ran the half instead and finished in 1:14:59 off of around 45-50 MPW.

You could go out right now and run a 2:45. The marathon isn't that big a deal. It's just a longer run that anybody in decent shape can complete. The bigger deal is being able to race it and run the fastest you are capable of.

My suggestion to people is don't pick a goal pace and try to train for that. Do the workouts as they are supposed to be done and then plug your times in and that will tell you your goal. Since you raced, you can use that 115 half as your guide.

From mcmillan

Tempo 530-545

Long runs 625-725

800s 227-236

The other important thing the McMillan calculator says is that there is only 7 or 8 seconds between the fastest pace you can race 20 miles and the fastest you can race a marathon. VERY easy to run 8 seconds faster than the shape you are in for the first half of a race. People don't always bonk at 18 or 20miles because they ran out of glycogen, they simply just ran too hard of a pace. No different than slowing down the second half of a 10k after running crazy the first couple miles.