Hand her the gold medal now - Caster Semenya complete ridiculous 50.76/1:58.46 double in span of 50 minutes

ukathleticscoach wrote:

This just look slike an entry sheet for the heats which is why the times are not in order and a couple have no time

That's what it was. Semenya subsequently won in 4:10.

Here's the video of the 1500m (year is mislabelled). You have to feel sorry for the second placed athlete.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EszpoGf2Nkw

Ross Tucker wrote:

You're still missing the context, and speculating purely based on digits on a computer screen. Time will tell, but I hope Semenya gets into a quality 400m with a fast starter one line inside her, 23.x at 200m and she's run 48.x right now.

That is true, I haven't seen the races.

Still, she either would have to be taking that race extremely easy or progress very quickly this season to run 48.

50.7 is no indicator of 48 even if the athlete looked comfortable. If you are predicting 48 mid then it is literally like predicting 3:35 for an athlete that just ran 3:45 looking comfortable.

If you are saying 48 low to flat then it is like predicting 3:32/3:33 for that athlete.

audrey rouget wrote:

Chris Chavez ‏@ChrisChavezSI 1m1 minute ago

Shaunae Miller goes faster than Caster Semenya’s early WL mark (50.74) with a 49.70 for 400m in the Bahamas. #CBBI2016

Didn't Rosaline Nyawira run a 400m in 49.03 in KIpchoge Keino games recently?

Metric Miler wrote:

Still, she either would have to be taking that race extremely easy or progress very quickly this season to run 48.

Did you miss the part about her negative splitting the 400? Anybody who negative splits a 400 can easily run it 2 seconds faster with positive splits.

I watched the tape of all three races. She's obviously holding back. In the 800m, when she gets close to the finish, she sees the clock ticking towards 2 minutes and puts in an astonishing kick over the last 10m or so. If you run an 800 all out to that point, you simply cannot accelerate like that.

In the 1500, it looked like her coach told her, "Don't take the lead until the last lap." She hangs back for the first two laps, moves into 2nd about 5m from the leader starting the last lap. Then, she makes up the entire 5m meters in about 75 yards in the curve, then coasts down the backstretch and the final turn before picking up the pace the last 100m. It really didn't look like a hard effort.

Two thoughts:-

- that's a strange track layout - the finish is way before the bend, and the start for the 1500m was well into the bend rather than just on the straight.

- more importantly - to all those dumb asses snarking about this woman. Yes, she is clearly an anomaly (a talented runner with medical issues which may well be giving her a big advantage over her competitors). But imagine if that woman was your sister or your daughter and you could hear what was being said on this forum or elsewhere. Do you have to lose all humanity about this, rather than having a sensible, structured debate about why traditional binary gender categorisation doesn't always work perfectly?

larkimm wrote:

Two thoughts:-

- that's a strange track layout - the finish is way before the bend, and the start for the 1500m was well into the bend rather than just on the straight.

- more importantly - to all those dumb asses snarking about this woman. Yes, she is clearly an anomaly (a talented runner with medical issues which may well be giving her a big advantage over her competitors). But imagine if that woman was your sister or your daughter and you could hear what was being said on this forum or elsewhere. Do you have to lose all humanity about this, rather than having a sensible, structured debate about why traditional binary gender categorisation doesn't always work perfectly?

Now imagine you have a daughter who trains hard all her life with Olympic Medal goals and potential and standing on the starting line with her are hermaphrodites who have an extremely unfair advantage over your daughter and all of be othe xx females in the race.

Human rights for one should not take away the human rights for all of the rest.

Sorry but I can't support that theory.

I agree that no one should be cruel to Semenya- how does that help the situation, and how is that EVER the right thing to do? She can't help the way she was born. I do think she is astute and using the situation to her advantage, and I am not sure if I would not do the same thing if I were her and if running had the potential to set me up for life. I'd like to think I wouldn't take advantage of the situation, knowing my unique advantage...but perhaps I would.

However, while watching that 1500, I actually just felt horribly sad for the other athletes. Have we become so PC that we have lost all common sense? I don't see how anyone can watch that and think that Semenya belongs in a race against females. It almost seems the more advanced we become scientifically, the more we lose any common sense. In our quest to be fair to Semenya, we have not been fair to those whose hormones and anatomy are completely female. Glad my daughter isn't going to the Olympics this year in Semenya's events.

you have completely missed the point. If it was my sister I would understand that biologically her body does not constitute being fully female and thus has an advantage as large as taking drugs would give an athlete, if not more so. But that's because I'm not a PC softy who's afraid to keep strict rules in a sport that is about raw individual performance. I'm sorry but it has nothing to do with how Caster or anyone like Caster chooses to live. It is about the biological advantages in that her body's testosterone levels and build prove she is more male than female, so this argument is insane. This is a man racing women. The decision to have her on hormones in order to compete was a solid answer to the problem (still does not solve the issue), and the only negative in the argument is poor Caster wasnt as fast on hormones. So like a pouty child she fights it because she's not blowing away all the women like she used to. This reeks of a frat boy joke where they jump in a girls race just to embarass them all when a decent state level HS boy could beat the greatest women of all time, world record holders. That is what this is.

Its because I have five sisters, four daughters and 13 nieces that I want the traditional "binary" categorisation to continue. Its pretty simple, people with Y 's in one group, no Y's in the other. Thats about as sensible and as structured as you can get. As far as people being rude here, I think that pales in comparison to Caster knowingly flauting the rules and totally destroying competetion that doesnt have a fair chance. No one would care if she voluntarily did the right thing.

larkimm wrote:

... But imagine if that woman was your sister or your daughter and you could hear what was being said on this forum or elsewhere. Do you have to lose all humanity about this, rather than having a sensible, structured debate about why traditional binary gender categorisation doesn't always work perfectly?

The truth is, she's not winning these races because of a supreme talent. Semenya doesn't have superior foot speed, and her form isn't that great. Caster has a distinct advantage over her competition, because other women could never have the muscle mass and strength Caster has without radically cheating, a la Jarmila Kratochvílová. Caster may even have an advantage in cooling her body/sweating.

Being humane does not include lying or ignoring the obvious.

400m negative split wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

Still, she either would have to be taking that race extremely easy or progress very quickly this season to run 48.

Did you miss the part about her negative splitting the 400? Anybody who negative splits a 400 can easily run it 2 seconds faster with positive splits.

I guess I did miss the part where official splits for the 400m were posted yes. Or at least a video of the race.

Here's the 400m video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Sy_hzLNGQ

you think you're a man wrote:

Here's the 400m video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Sy_hzLNGQ

Thanks for that.

I don't see a negative split, more a very even split which is fine for an 800 runner. She finishes strongly akin to Ohuruogu but is clearly working hard.

I'm sure she would go faster than 50.7, but not 48. Like I said, 48.0 to 50.7 is the same as comparing 3:32 high to 3:45.

Well, I think she is probably already capable of a low 49, and that's 3 seconds faster than anything before this year, so the magnitude of improvement to a 48, then under, is not large in the context of what she's already done.

Leg speed may ultimately limit her top end speed - someone has pointed out, quite rightly, that Marita Koch had superior 200m speed (at least, you'd hope so - imagine Semenya running 22s for 200m as well), but right now, nobody knows where the ceiling exists. If I hadn't seen a 400m run like a 1500m race, I would not believe it.

One thing to remember is that in 2009, pre- first treatment/intervention (which we're not supposed to know about, and around which there's much misinformation), she was an 18-year old, straight out of school, without any advanced training, running 1:55. Add 7 years, same physiological situation, and a 1:52-1:53 is not inconceivable, and nor is it inconceivable for a 1:52 800m runner to have a 48s 400m capacity.

We'll see. I really hope she goes for the 400 and 800, and gets into some really fast races. The clock will have the final answer.

The video doesn't really do justice, mostly because the angle and the track layout make it difficult to see the race pattern. All I can tell you is that I was standing at 100 to go, and she came off the bend, looked up, shifted, saw the clock at 60, shifted again. I wish I'd tried to get splits, but if you work off the women who came second and third, running typical 400m races in 52-high, 53-low, then what would you say they reached halfway in? 25? Because Semenya was behind them at 200m. So she's at 25.5, 26. Closing faster. And I firmly believe that neither the first 200 or the second 200m was maximal.

Anyway, it's all speculation. I hope she gets into a race that demands 49.5s, because then she'll run 49, and it'll be clearer to anyone watching.

I agree. This is all a bit of a mess. Best article I have read on this matter is here

I think a case by case basis would be the best policy for the IAAF to bring in. A blanket OK by CAS may have been short sighted.

After seing this video, I clearly see a dude running against women! So waht's the point of this track and field circus?

Rio will be a big joke is Semenya pic up a few medals!