Peruvian runners - the new rivals to Kenya/Ethiopia and Japan

They'll have to grow taller, slimmer

Since when are Japan runners in the same league with anyone, let alone E. Africans?

Peruvian athlete Luis Fernando Ostos Cruz got 4th at Stanford in 28:03 - not shabby.

Ghost, you consistently say that an athlete wouldn't dope because they have high morals and ethics.

What do morals and ethics have to do with the choice to dope? If a coach or agent convinces an athlete to dope, it is not a breach of ethics, but an example of trust in the coach/agent. If an athlete feels their competition is doping, then it is not an ethical violation, just a choice to level the playing field. You're ignoring the fact that choosing to dope is not the same decision as choosing to cheat. The choice to dope is made with regards to performance and competition, not ethics and moral responsibility.

People use the question "would xx athlete ever dope?" That's the wrong question to ask. The more realistic question is "Could xx athlete be convinced to dope?" That situation is much more realistic. It accounts for pressure and athlete can feel to dope, whether its from their teammates, competition, coach, or even their own shortcomings.

Will Peruvians have a similar breakout in running as the Colombians have had in cycling?

Seriously mate? wrote:

Will Peruvians have a similar breakout in running as the Colombians have had in cycling?

I really hope they do. Good for the sport. While at it, have a look at Bolivia, Paraguay, Ecuador, Nepal and Bhutan.

Ghost1, do you teach English or Chinese (Mandarin/Cantonese)?

El Keniano wrote:

Seriously mate? wrote:

Will Peruvians have a similar breakout in running as the Colombians have had in cycling?

I really hope they do. Good for the sport. While at it, have a look at Bolivia, Paraguay, Ecuador, Nepal and Bhutan.

Paraguay is not at altitude, bro. That country is 100% flat. Yes, there you have the hot climate and humidity of Gran Chaco and Parana River regions.

I was at 4,000 meters in Bolivia at Potosi for much of a summer back in the 1980s and also a 7,000 feet or so in Sucre and maybe 2-4,000 feet in Santa Cruz. In Sucre only did I see any other runners. There was a track in Potosi and the running in the mountains around there, which went up well above 15,000 feet was very good if you could take all the time to get through the outskirts and uneven cobblestone streets (very hard to run on) where loose dogs would charge at you if you ran at all. But once you were outside that, it was tremendous and you could run forever on trails. There were plenty of small Aymara villages on the altiplano that surely could have produced very good runners but soccer was the only sport in Bolivia. I ran every day on the track in Potosi, and I had no ability to run anything at all fast, spiking up at the end for a 6:13 mile, about 75 seconds slower than at sea level at that time, and then when I went down to Sucre, it felt like I was hammering and then much more so back in California at sea level, so the lack of any speedwork did not seem to hamper me all that much. People were short and stocky--at 5'11" I towered over most of the people there and could play 1 on 4 basketball--but distance running will get people skinny enough. There was incredibly marked income inequality, as in all poor countries (and the U.S.), so that the whiter and blonder they were the richer they were and the native Aymara were inevitably homeless in the city and very poor. Too bad that a Mexican doper is likely in charge of the Peruvian program but I wish them luck if they are clean.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything here and really hope you're correct about the cleanliness of the Peruvians. Also, I really enjoy most of what you post here, am glad to see that you're back, and don't want what I'm going to write to drive you away.

But you seem much too smart to believe that you can characterize large populations, ones with tens of thousands to millions of members, in a single way. I have no trouble believing that Peruvians overall are very ethical. I don't know any, have never been there and have no reason to doubt you. But there are always exceptions so arguing that a particular athlete is clean because s/he comes from a particular population that you admire for their ethics is not going to answer any questions. Well, nothing really can answer those questions unfortunately.

I have no trouble believing the performances are legitimate aside from the one from the woman caught doping. They're excellent but not so excellent that they push the limits of credibility. But when you talk about how this entire group of people would never stoop to doping you're making the identical argument that Renato Canova used to make here about why Kenyan performances were all legitimate and we know how that's turned out.

A Mexican doper! This is ridiculous - Rodolfo Gomez (2:09 marathon and 27:56 - 10,000) was never implicated in doping or ever even suspected of doping.

I have met Rodolfo several times, including back in the late 90s when he used to bring his Mexican runners (including his son - 3:42 - 1500 - who has since stopped running to concentrate on rock music) to the McGill invitational in Montreal - ironically the site of one of the Johnson's running 28:00 low for 10,000 track!

People should stop saying such and such doped, with zero evidence ZERO EVIDENCE to back up this libelous claim.

Rodolfo Gomes is a good man, a God Fearing Catholic, and has never had any connections with doping, either for his own use, or for the use of all the athletes he trained.

Ghost in China

www.omeida.com

Teach English, volunteer, learn Chinese

Interesting but they are well off the pace

Even sub 2:10 is nothing special nowadays

Let me know when they put in a noteworthy performance

Seriously mate? wrote:

Will Peruvians have a similar breakout in running as the Colombians have had in cycling?

The Columbians have been fantastic to watch. But before Ghost pontificates about the moral virtues of the humble Columbians, their success has not come without long shadows:

.

Team Sky's Henao was benched for questionable biopassport scores (no sanction, the team performed an n=1 "experiment" on Columbian altitude natives to show that his scores were not from doping...). 4 riders tested postiive at one race, the Clásico RCN-Claro in 2013. Ómar Puentes , Jorge Martínez, and Diego Quintero submitted samples positive for EPO. Jahír Pérez tested positive for betamethasone, and that is one of few races to provide testing. Marlon Perez tested positive for GW1516.

There were no OOC blood tests until the end of 2013.

Finally, this Columbian doctor was caught selling AICAR and TB-500

The limitations, of the Peruvian runners, up till now, are the lack of true leg speed, in the region of 28:00 to 28:20 for 10,000 track, which would make them more apt to be able to follow higher pace in the marathon in the sub 2:09 or sub 2:08 areas of speed. Flashback to the 70s with Ian Thompson, of Great Britain - from Luton, and a certified Spanish teacher - with a best 10,000 track time of only around 29:20 but who reached 2:09 in the marathon.

The problem, as I see it, is that most of these Peruvian runners go straight into marathon running without an apprenticeship on the track, which would be advantageous from a form and speed point of view. The track infrastructure simply does not exist in most of Latin America, whereas these guys can earn handsome little paycheques by cherry picking road races around Peru and neighboring countries. Rodolfo Gomez is there to ensure that they do not succomb to that temptation, and reserve their best efforts for target races. This means reducing the number of yearly races, especially marathons.

The advantage the Peru runners will have in a hot conditions marathon, such as possible in Rio, is that they will adapt better to those conditions - especially for those Peru runners who have spent significant periods of time, in the more lowland areas of Peru, either for work or other.

Pertile of Italy - has similar track credentials as the Peruvians (around 29:00 for 10,000) and has proved to be a threat in Championship races in challenging conditions. Pertile, by the way, was recently exonerated, by FIDAL the Italian Federation, as was Daniele Meucci - and rightly so, as both these Italians are both completely innocent of any wrong doing. They were unfairly targeted by FIDAL when they could not provide details of their whereabouts. It was almost a harassment case. Watch out for both Meucci and Pertile in Rio - they have a vindication agenda in mind.

Meucci - an engineer by training, but contracted with the Italian 'Carabinieri' (Italian Police and Law Enforcement) would be the last person to dope. Those who had met Meucci in New York during his past trips to run races there have said the same thing.

Ghost in China,

www.omeida.com

Teach English, volunteer,

learn Chinese, apply today!

Don't say things that aren't true. Also, don't say things that contradict what you've said in the past. You are well aware that he has a connection to doping: his athlete Gladys Tejeda tested positive for furosemide.

You are a fraud Ghost1, speaking out of your as s. You have nothing on which to speak about an entire population and their aversion to doping. More than that, you made this thread knowing that there have been positives. You speak about the robust ethics of Peruvian athletes in one post and then about the loyal subservience and willingness to follow orders, no matter what, in the other. You say that Gomez has never been connected to doping when you know 100% he had an athlete test positive.

Stop wasting our time.

Mistake in the above - Meucci and Pertile were not exonerated by FIDAL (Italian Federation) - but rather by the IAAF.

Ghost in China

www.omeida.com

Teach English, volunteer,

learn Chinese, apply today!

Ghost1, you love to ignore the Federations' decisions and decide that your analysis of the analysis is more genuine. So, how do you explain Inés Melchor, positive for benzocaine at the South American Cross country championships, or Karina Alvarez positive for the same at the South American Games 10,000m?

Ghost has never met a doper he couldn't make excuses for.

Here he is supporting Kaori Yoshida, banned for EPO:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=7070811&id=7075938#7075938

Defending marta dominguez:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3823157&page=2

Defending Marhamoud Marhoum:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6438324

Lots of other threads supporting everybody from Cathal Lombard to Eddy H. to Tahri.

I have no idea if Gomez has doped his runners, or if the current peruvians are doped, but I've said it before, If Ghost is supporting them, I am automatically suspicious that they are doping.

I am not aware of the full story, but if Rodolfo Gomez had really been linked to the doping of Tejeda, and/or others, he would have lost his position as a coach to the Peru National long distance team. He is still in operation.

Athletics Peru takes a very firm stance against doping and other violations. You may read their charter for evidence of this.

The point is - yes, there are some cases of doping, but to implicate Gomez directly is wrong, because there is no direct evidence against him. Gomez is now 63 years old, and at the tail end of an illustrious career both as an athlete and as a coach. Do you really think he would throw that all away at this stage in his career. Highly doubtful.

Ghost in China,

www.omeida.com