Kalenjin : American : : AC : DC

i like the spirit, but this is pure onanism.

"There are no secrets."

p.s. c'mon, the pineal gland!?

p.p.s. your working definition of kalenjin, by its sheer arbitrarity, shatters the argument. i mean, whats to say that a 2700 is DC versus neo-yobes being AC?

Since one is either AC or DC, and not, by definition, a mixture of both, where do you draw the line?

I agree that there are no secrets. The truth is looking you in the eye at this very moment, but that doesn't mean you are perceiving it...

Yes, the pineal gland, sixth sense etc. There are many people who have studied the glands, but only a slight few that have mastered them, mainly the eastern mystics. A fairly mainstream account of the effect the pineal gland can have on your perception can be read about in Autobiography of a Yogi, by Yogananda.

It's only theoretical, but is it not logical to think that someone like Ondieki was closer to the "AC Zone" when he went 26:58, or whatever it was. As far as I'm concerned those in 100% "AC zone", whatever the hell that is, travel at the speed of thought, which can be read about in the autobiography above. I'm just saying that as one gets closer to traveling at the speed of thought they are accessing energy closer to true AC form.

some interesting ideas, but i believe ondieki is not kalenjin but kisii - or at least his name is.

The speed of thought depends on how fast neurotransmitters

bind to receptors, are broken down and recycled, how fast

ion channels open and close, etc.

There are no mystical forces surging up through the soles

of Kenyan runners making them one with the force, etc.

Everyone can tap into their unused potential by removing

hindrances.

Perhaps Kenyan children have an advantage if they're not

sitting in front of a television four hours a day,

soaking up a pile of conditioning about what's possible

and what isn't. A lot of people are driving with the

parking brake on. Runners actively seek pain and

suffering, which seems to run counter to the pursuit of

pleasure and happiness. However, North Americans probably

don't perceive themselves as being warriors.

Got me shakin' at the knees!

Thunderstruck! Yah yah yah Thunderstruck.

Legalizit,

"How does he Know?, how does he know? Innervisions! You remind me of Mr. Wizard a cartoon character from the 60's.

Ever see Bill Rodgers run in his prime? The guy floated like a butterfly, stung like a bee.

Geb & KK are not Kalenjin or "bounders?" but they done allright.

Tapping into the emotional side (ala Beardsley) is potent medicine but this has not been studied & makes no difference without the athleticism to back it up.

Broaden your horizon, legalizit. You are too focused on the myth of the Kenyan.

Wizard...that's actually the title of the biography sitting here on Tesla.

Anyways, in this thread the word "Kalenjin" doesn't necessarily refer to a true Kalenjin person, but instead to somebody, regardless of nationality or tribe, that can really haul ass. That is why the working definition includes Paula Radcliffe as a Kalenjin, though she clearly is not a true Kalenjin. I don't believe the Kenyans, Ethiopians, Moroccans, or any other Africans have more potential than Americans, Japanese, Canadians, Australians, etc. As far as I can see the point of threads like this, or studying the Kalenjin tribe, is to dispel "The Kenyan Myth", not uphold it, by understanding everything that makes those incredible performances. To say it's all about "working hard" is a load of shit; although that drive is certainly not to be discounted as it is a vital element. An interesting analogy could be found in Tesla's take on Edison ..."If he had a needle to find in a haystack he would not stop to reason where it was most likely to be, but would proceed at once with the feverish diligence of a bee, to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search...I was almost a sorry witness of his doings, knowing that just a little theory and calculation would have saved him 90 per cent of the labor...Trusting himself entirely to his inventor's instinct and practical American sense...the truly prodigous amount of his actual accomplishments is little short of a miracle." The runner who goes 26:21 10K on 10 miles a week has accomplished something much greater than a runner who turns an equal time on 100 miles a week, as the theory and calculation in regards to the training regimen will have left more time to other creative tasks.

...by the way I've read in several different places that the reason Tergat is more likely to have Geb's number in a cross race is because Geb's springy/bounding stride is better suited for the track/roads.

Mostly the determining factors are hard work (how could it not be?) & impossible dreams. That & a love of running & competing.

I agree, study what the best have done & become motivated & knowledgeable about how to proceed. What you will find is that the great majority of distance running athletes over the last 40 years have trained in a remarkably similar fashion. They loved the "hard work" they put into their running & competing.

Looking for mystical/magical answers, Mr. Wizard is like looking for the needle in the haystack.

Just run baby.

Hodgie-San, the last three words of your post were profound enough to make me feel a bit stupid, so it must be good advice. However, still a boy, and in awe of the wizards that have passed through this place, I have a tendency to latch onto impractical ideals, impossible dreams, and somewhat magical explanations/performances. ...There may not have been anything mystical about it, but going 2:10:59 must have felt somewhat magical, no?

GOD! I once had a chance to talk to Marty Froelick about his 2:10:59 & told me.... "I wish I could have gone on & on I felt so good...." Very cool!

I currently have 10 years (1977-87) of my training posted on my web page.

Nothing tricky about it, if you train well & consistently over time, good things can happen. It is that simple.

Go ahead & latch onto those dreams, there are no real explanations that matter.

The pineal gland is scientifically categorized as a holdover from our reptilian ancestors of many millions of years ago. It's an obscure, primitive and somewhat psychic component to our evolved physiology. Martial artists, gymnasts, dancers, acrobats, etc., tap into the pineal gland as closely as most any discipline, as well as yoginis and other sorts of visionaries. For instance, a blind monk can 'sense' when an attacker is present. A good martial artist can 'sense' danger, sudden movement or when someone is unseen and behind them; similar to an animal. That heightened awareness comes from the stimulation of pineal gland vis-a-vis those disciplines.

One can conjecture that the wired up, magical buzz of running a 27:00 10K has a similar effect on the pineal gland. Perhaps the massive endorphine production connected to this great running feat is tied to the stimulation of the pineal gland. Still, I'm not sure how much that applies to simply training your balls off and running fast.

Nonetheless, the Kalenjins have had an advantage, having trained for miles on dirt and clay roads from the age of 6 or so, while we were lucky to hit all of our P.E. classes until the age of 13ish, when we decided to avoid some of the distractions and become 'runners'. And chubby, beefy folks were winnowed out of the Kenyan fold quickly over the generations, as they were cattle herders for thousands of years who herded cattle on their feet for miles. Americans keep chowing on the growth hormone-fed faux beef and getting fattened up themselves as a result. We now have 8 and 9-year-old girls having periods in the US. That's sick.

Tangent: A possible but not ironclad example of the benefits of training at a younger age is the Torres brothers at the University of Colorado. Jorge Torres of Colorado started running at age 11, while Edwardo waited till about 18 months later to begin running after watching his twin brother clean up. This seems like it could be part of the reason why Jorge is slightly ahead of Edwardo in his races.

Also worth noting: When a Kalenjin tribesman wins $50,000 he can buy his village every year till he is 50. This is like $5 million for an American to win New York or Boston. If an American wins $50K, it's a great windfall, but not enough to quit the day job. Financial incentive is one of the centrally motivational components to the Kalenjin's success. If an American (not Khalid) could win $5 million to win Chicago or London and set a world record, they'd have a much better incentive to give it their all, and in all likelihood someone from the US would probably succeed in breaking the world record.

I hate bumping my own thread...oh well. I was curious to see if anybody new to the board might have a comment on this thread.

Kalenjins, talk all you know about them, then after, ask me to verify them,... I have stayed with them for a while. I kinda know their lifestyles. ;)

Legalizit, what makes you believe that working hard is a load of shit in running with the best? Back in 1980 & 1984 at the height of USA marathoning we had 225 Qualifiers under 2:21:54 & 201 Qualifiers under 2:19:04 respective. Also those two marathon trials are the fastest times ever turned in U.S. trials history. When you sober up from the dope.....

Joseph M. Wiley wrote:

I hate bumping my own thread...oh well. I was curious to see if anybody new to the board might have a comment on this thread.

Your own thread? So "Joseph M. Wiley" is Legalizit?

formerly posting under Legalizit

Please notice that I said hard work is not to be discounted, as it is a vital element. It is not however the only element. What was being implied is that there are an infinite amount of forces that have an effect on our training results, and as these force become increasingly subtle there effects manifest more prominently. This is why your beliefs have a greater effect than the air that passes through you, which has a greater effect on results than the liquids that pass through you, which have a greater effect than the food that passes through you, which has a greater effect than the keyboard that does not pass through you at all.

I can only imagine that once you saw the words "load of shit" next to "hard work" you lost your ability to listen and passed over the part where Tesla complimented Edison on his achievements, but was frustrated because the American could have accomplished more had he taken his compatriot Abraham Lincoln's advice that given X amount of hours to cut down a tree one should take .9X to sharpen his axe.

The point of posts such as these is to ask questions so that we can discover the effect of these ever subtler forces.

A vision that came to me the other day, and has not yet loosened it's grip, is that Kenya is on the equator and at altitude. This means that Kenya is receiving a far greater amount of cosmic rays from the sun, another of the subtle forces that many people don't ackowledge, than anybody in the United States is that is some 30 to 50 degrees away from the equator.

Absolute zero, or zero degrees Kelvin, seems to be equivalent to death where there is no movement(interesting that nobody can quite reach this point in a lab, life will not be stopped!) and as you move farther from that point atoms vibrate increasingly faster. Being able to absorb a more intense dose of the Sun's rays, without having damage done to the body, would explain why those that are black, and especially those blacks that are lying near the equator, would seem to naturally vibrate at a faster rate than the fairer skinned people who are not able to absorb as much energy and therefore whose atoms are not vibrating as fast.

Tony, who really cares about 2:21 or 2:19, I'd rather risk it all and take part in a 1:59 than duplicate what women are now running. I doubt this makes much sense, partially because this response was not given much time to formulate, but maybe when you sober up from the pride...

Man, you are way over analyizing things. Americans aren't as good as the african runners because: A. we are lazy (the U.S. is all about instant gratification) B. video games and tv C. fast food (refer to A) D. basketball, football, and, ugh, baseball. But don't worry, because the U.S. feels that it should own and rule the world, the American lifestyle will soon be the worlds lifestyle and the rest of the world will become fat and lazy.