How much can 100 mpw cut of a 19 minute 5k?

You're right. I forgot about G Hagg.

Results will vary because of age, talent, etc, but if you want a case study then here's what I did a few years ago.

Age 27

height: 6'0"

weight: 165 lbs

running 20-25 miles mpw and consistently and 18:30ish 5ks. Previous lifetime best was 17:12 from high school.

I went from 25 - 60 - 81 - 100 in a 1 month span ( I wasn't intending to go that high, but I kept feeling alright so I kept going up). All my mileage was run around 8-9 min pace. I then held 100+ for the next 51 weeks.

After my 3rd 100 mile week - I ran a solo effort low key 5k in 17:11

After my 5th: 16:42.

I didn't get to race again for a while so after about 3 months I did a track 5k of 16:22 in pretty bad conditions.

I eventually got to where 16:40 felt really easy, but I maxed at 16:05 without doing speed work and without tapering off from 100 miles. I also did a 1:14:05 half during this time during a 100 mile week.

This is sound advice. Basically my experience in HS.

Sorry, this is the sound advice I was referencing.

Centuried wrote:

not that simple wrote:

You are wrong.

Are there scenarios where the guy could end up even slower than he is now? And I don't mean because of injury or burnout.

Are there any scenarios that don't end in burnout or injury? You can make up crazy training easily but if it isn't executable what's the point?

It sounds like youre in highschool. If you run 100 miles in highschool you will be completely burnt out by the time you get to college. If you have any aspirations of continuing to improve after highschool, I would NOT go for 100mpw. In fact I wouldn't aim for more than about 50mpw. Not to mention moving from 30mpw to 100mpw over the course of a few months is a gigantic step and is only going to result in injury. I think too many people get caught up about mileage. Is running more going to improve your ability to run long distances faster? Yes! But don't fall into the thought that "If a little of something is good than more must be better" because its not true. Running faster for further is never the answer. Your legs will never have time to adjust to the new paces. Increase your volume carefully. Do one or two tempos a week and some cruise intervals later in the summer. Have one long run a week (but not too long - like 20% of your mileage) and GIVE YOUR LEGS TIME TO RECOVER - dont be a hero and run every mile as hard as you can. If you do the proper type of training and respect your paces, 40-50 mpw will yeild the same [if not better] results than 100mpw.

2 minutes.

I did an analysis of 10k times and compared average miles for the 8 weeks before the race and finish time. For every ten miles more a person ran they raced 34 seconds faster.

So 17 seconds would be a bad, but useful estimate for the 5k and 17*70 is about 2 minutes.

Remeber that for an elite runner running 100 miles will probably only take around 10 hours, while a 19 min 5k runner running at the same intensity will be at it for a much longer time.

depends on age and workouts but I dropped three minutes in my late 30s and have kept that off the past seven or eight years through this program. After 15 years out with injury, I ran 20:30 off of about 7-10 miles per week for six months, then 19:15 off of maybe 15-20 mpw. 16:04/1:14/2:38 off of 100-112 mpw.

In your position, particularly if you are young, you should be gradually raising mileage, working to get faster and faster at each stage, and not touching 100 mpw until well into college or after it. Otherwise, you don't get all the benefits of a gradual progression.

For a slightly serious answer, running 60-70 mpw should make you about 10% faster over 5k. Thats 2 mins. Survive that and you can think about running 100mpw.

fadfasfdalsfsadou wrote:

For a slightly serious answer, running 60-70 mpw should make you about 10% faster over 5k. Thats 2 mins. Survive that and you can think about running 100mpw.

70mpw is also where the supposed plateau occurs, and returns on volume start to diminish.

12:5x

What a great story. Did you get injured at all?

Just to add some extra data to the thread, I'm looking at my log and averaged 53 mpw over the last year. Over the summer I had a little more time and for a period of 11 weeks I averaged 60. I saw no real significant improvement. Maybe if I would have kept increasing up to 70 something magical may have happened. I'm also about a low 19s high 18s 5k runner.

After posting this data, I decided to go run a trio of 20 milers, some with intervals, and then I ran a 5K time trial. You were totally right. I dropped 30 seconds off my PR, just after those 60 miles!

Loweryour5k wrote:

Well since he still can only run at a 6 pace his pace for his normal easy runs would be 8-10 minutes. He would get to 100 once then gradually lower. During the season from august to october would only be running 40-45 mpw the week before post season meets 20-25. Runner is 17.

I think the major question is why hasn't this runner done more than 30 mile weeks in the past. What is the limiting factor? Motivation? Injuries? Lack of knowledge?

Also, why would you get up to 100 miles per week in the summer, then drop it down to 45 in season? If you got up that high, you should keep doing at least 60 in season.

Honestly, the highest I would suggest this runner go is 60 miles per week. Maybe a little higher if there is time to do doubles over the summer. The mental effort and exhaustion, not to mention the physical fatigue that accumulates, should not be underestimated.

The benefits of eventually getting to 100 miles per week are certainly immense, but it takes time. If 60 miles per week works for you this summer, you can do more the next summer. Getting to 100 miles per week sometime in college is nothing to be ashamed about, and is probably the best for your development anyway.

This is also a good recipe for getting hurt. A few people may be able to do this without getting injured but the vast majority are going to be sidelined with overuse injuries to the joints, tendons, bones, and/or muscles with this kind of increase. From experience, I ended up with patella tendinitis going from 20 to 50 over a single month, and then ended up with a fibula stress fracture and calf strain when I tried to stretch it out over 3 months a couple years later, with 20 mile weeks leading into both ramp-ups.

If you already have great form and lots of strength (core strength, especially) you will likely have better luck, but any muscle imbalance, or uneven loading is going to be exacerbated over the hundreds of thousands of steps you are going to be taking in the course of a month.

Working with a physical therapist has helped me identify those imbalances, although I don't have the "this worked for me" story yet because I'm still going through recovery, but it makes sense over all. It wouldn't hurt to have a coach or therapist perform a gait analysis and help you identify potential issues long before they come up. 100 mpw is a lot of running and your body is not used to it. Things that wouldn't come up at 30 or even 50 are going to be raw and exposed at 100.

Depends on how well they respond to training. Speaking for myself I ran around19 flat on modest mileage and got to high 16s with a consistent 70-80 mpw or so.