"Middle Zone" feels uncomfortable

This all sounds reasonable so what of the complaint that the VO2max training is tearing him down? Is the solution to keep doing VO2max intervals but a tick slower or shorter and build up? Fewer reps?

Racing yourself into fitness for the 5k is the best/safest way I've found for those who aren't VO2max animals. Slower/longer reps at LT/10k pace, tempo runs and short stuff at mile pace w/ good recovery will set you up nicely.

I fully recognize that basically doing 10k training (above) will not round most people into shape to run a good 5k. You do have to get in a decent amount of 5k paced running in some form. Might as well make it in a race situation. Wash, rinse, repeat every few weeks and watch the times start to drop. That or race the 5k once a month and do a time trial or long 5k rep workout (3x1600 @ 5k) on the track in between the races. If you find that these take quite a bit out of you, be cautious with the other workout(s) you do during the week after.

letsbe honest wrote:

oheo wrote:

Similar feeling in most of my 3k-5k pace workouts. Best solution is to start around 10k pace and negative split the workout.

Also, from a buildup standpoint, beginning your v02max work with shorter reps like 400s could help.

Or, consider a multi pace work. Something like, Miles at T, 1000s at 10k, 600s at 5k-3k.

All of this is fine, but you need to get up to longer intervals at VO2max.

Starting slower is fine. Starting shorter is fine. But you need to go further.

10k pace won't do it. 600s certainly won't do it.

I agree they need to be done. However, a focus on 10k training will best suit him. Especially if he has the opportunity to race shorter distances.

Running 8x1000 with 2 reps at 10k, 4 at 5k, and 2 at 3k will be just as effective as your standard v02max workout.

Want longer reps at 5k or 3k than this workout? Run a race.

Good answer. I am not a VO2 max animal, and I ran my best 5ks off this approach.

I am not sure what you mean by 'middle zone', but if you are struggling with longer intervals then you are probably aerobically weak and need to work on that.

Few more miles may help but mainly the 3k/5k reps you are afraid of will help the most. Doing things you find difficult until you are better at them is basic training. You may be running them a bit too hard also so take them a bit slower for a couple of weeks and then you will see the benefits.

test2 wrote:

This all sounds reasonable so what of the complaint that the VO2max training is tearing him down? Is the solution to keep doing VO2max intervals but a tick slower or shorter and build up? Fewer reps?

Bumping this question.

I just loathe doing 4-5x1000 at 3-5k pace, but worry how much I'd be missing out if I instead did longer critical velocity workouts at more like 8-10k pace. It feels too similar to tempo at 10-mile pace.

But seriously. How I hate 3k pace.

oheo wrote:

Running 8x1000 with 2 reps at 10k, 4 at 5k, and 2 at 3k will be just as effective as your standard v02max workout.

What rest would you take for this?

1:00 seems like plenty for the first 2, and 1:30-2:00 works for 5k pace 1000s, but hitting 2x1000 at 3k pace after 4x1000 at 5k is going to take a bit of recovery for most.

I am asking honestly since I might try this. Does look like a great workout. (Although 6x1000 at 5k or faster is a lot for a guy who dislikes this as his "middle pace.")