everyone loves community college, except that the graduation rate is minuscule in comparison to four-year colleges.
everyone loves community college, except that the graduation rate is minuscule in comparison to four-year colleges.
Dora the Agoraphobiac wrote:
News for you wrote:Thanks for the link. It looks like we're in a 6 year upward trend.
An upward trend compared to when it bottomed out during the Great Recession.
In January of 1979, manufacturing employment was close to its peak at 19.4 million.
In Jan. of 2000, that number had declined to 17.3 million.
In Jan. of 2010, the recession whittled that number down to 11.5 million.
Now, roughly 7 years after the end of the recession, it's only very modestly rebounded to 12.3 million. That's still down 5 million from 2000! You can quibble all you want, the slight uptick since the recession doesn't constitute a "bounce back."
I was responding to your complaint that I had mentioned only "one month of modest growth". Thanks to your research, we now know that it's been 6 years of modest growth.
You think we don't need people majoring in art history or philosophy, yet those are the type who have ruled our society, both in government and in much of the private sector, historically. We get our leaders from the liberal arts education at all the top schools. And we certainly could do a lot worse than training people to think seriously and critically and to look carefully and critically. That's why med schools today encourage or even require their undergraduates and some of their doctors in training to take philosophy classes (for the MCATs) and art history classes (to better observe the symptoms of patients).
Midcareer median salaries of philosophy majors are very high, and at the 90th % around 160k. Stop spreading Rubio's and Scott's lies.
The fact is that college graduates make much, much more than mere high school graduates. And I know as a prof that many students ultimately drop out because of the need to work so much outside classes to afford tuition and cost of living--it takes away from study time which leads to failing classes and dropping out. Remember that we graduate only something like 29% despite having over 60% start college. We need to remove some of these hurdles.
The average college graduate will outearn the average high school graduate by $830,000 over a career, according to the Fed.
jjjjj wrote:
The average college graduate will outearn the average high school graduate by $830,000 over a career, according to the Fed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/troyonink/2014/05/05/federal-reserve-college-education-worth-830000-more-than-high-school-diploma/#77df2fad43e9
Which is why college shouldn't be free. It would just be a transfer of wealth to those who will already earn more.
jamin wrote:
A. Queerie wrote:Here's a little math problem for you, jamin. Considering that the average college grad worker makes $17,500/year more than the non-college worker, how long will it be before the worth of the former surpasses that of the latter (assuming your $19/hour and -$50k figures)? Also, how much would each have earned by retirement age of 66?
Firstly, most people don't graduate college in 4 years. About half take 6 years, and many go on to even more school, not even entering the workforce until age 30. So the differences in average starting net worth would be much greater than $50,000.
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No most graduate in 4 years. The average is about 6 years because of part time students, people who take breaks (do AA degree in 2 years, work 2 years, then go back to school for 3 years to get the BS). If you take out for profit schools (i.e. the dregs of the education systems) the numbers change a decent amount also. And the ones who go on to more school (masters and so on) might not graduate until 30 but then also make more than 17k.
But lets say you start 100k down, making 20k more per year. By 60 who do you think has more money?
jjjjj wrote:
The average college graduate will outearn the average high school graduate by $830,000 over a career, according to the Fed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/troyonink/2014/05/05/federal-reserve-college-education-worth-830000-more-than-high-school-diploma/#77df2fad43e9
A commonly used statistic that's totally misleading. College-grad-types would way outearn hi-school-grad-types whether or not they went to college.
People need to put away all this "high paying manufacturing jobs" stuff. I had a relative retired from Ford in Ohio who told all the "six figures for tightening screws" stories. That was a one-off historical abberation, folks - not real. Prior to 1910 those jobs were (rightly) modestly paid. Thank the Nazi's (and overly powerful unions) for the later distortions to this part or the labor market. Lucky couple of (or 3) generations there, but it's not coming back.
Obviously, 'skilled' (and I mean really skilled - a job that might take years to train for and optimize) workers should be highly paid. Trouble is too few people are suitable for those positions. What do all the 'average' folks do now? For a while (since the 80's really) the mantra was 'more education' which has of course been a waste (except to the edu establishment, who rub their hands).
You never know whats coming, but right now it looks like we are headed back to a more comfy version of the 19th century, where trades/manufacturing are needed but payed relatively less than today. You can buy a bit of time by doing IT or something, but those jobs will eventually be pared down too (too expensive for corps.)
If you are in development and are able to help a company better market itself because of the data your applications provide then you will always be useful - and handsomely paid. People have no idea just how big marketing budgets are in relation to the budgets for the rest of the company.
jjjjj wrote:
everyone loves community college, except that the graduation rate is minuscule in comparison to four-year colleges.
That is why I don't support offering it for free. Politicians and people in general have this idea that there are lots of people out there who have the brains to get through college but don't have the money to pay for it. That is simply BS. I have a niece who had next to nothing, she went through college in 3.5 years even and worked while she did it and graduated with zero debt. She did get a half-tuition academic scholarship, but trust me, that was super easy to achieve at the state school she attended, AND there are lots of colleges to go to that are cheaper than what she had to pay for too. She also had a job in her field waiting for her when she graduated. She is just a hard worker. There is nothing special about her as a student.
For those who ARE very poor, if you are an excellent student, you can get into at least one of the 62 colleges that meet full financial need. Get into Stanford and your family makes $125,000, you get full tuition. Make $65,000 and you get room and board too, and varying degrees in between the two incomes. That is typical of elite colleges in this country.
If you are average student and decent income, you can start at a Community College, pay for that while working and then take modest loans for your final 2 years at a 4-year college. Not difficult. People do NOT have to have huge student debt to graduate from a 4-year college.
great idea wrote:
jjjjj wrote:The average college graduate will outearn the average high school graduate by $830,000 over a career, according to the Fed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/troyonink/2014/05/05/federal-reserve-college-education-worth-830000-more-than-high-school-diploma/#77df2fad43e9Which is why college shouldn't be free. It would just be a transfer of wealth to those who will already earn more.
By keeping it "pay to play" you are restricting access to more wealth potential on those who - by no fault of their own - grow up poor.
"But you can give them loans that they can repay later." Sure, you can give them loans and give the kids who grew up in privileged neighborhoods, with good schools grants and scholarships. Yeah, that is really evening things out.
The only way to level the playing field is to take money out of the equation entirely and improve the current public education system as a whole.