Mo Farah's 800m ability

stats.gangsta_the_real_1 wrote:

Ventolin's method to even out splits isn't correct. Mostly because it has no basis in physics, math, or physiology. He got inspiration from information on an Oxford website (which was based on actual physics), then nearly completely changed their equation around until it gave him the results that he wanted. That's why it does not work. This isn't an attack on him. I'm just trying to explain why his method isn't correct.

You can see him here on a physics forum admitting that he has used "slight of hand" to fool us and that his method isn't legitimate:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/uneven-pace-running.300964/

From ventolin:

"The problem is, i've used sleight-of-hand with using exponent 3/4 for inverse of s^4/t^3 ( applicable to (s/t)^(4/3) but not s^4/t^3 ) Empirically, it's giving very good answers (!?!) but like I said, not strictly legit"

Wow, what a tool. I knew he just made it up off the top of his head. The time he hacks off is unreasonable. Nobody has run 2s faster in a 1500m by just staying close to the runner in front.

ukathleticscoach wrote:So Mo can do 3:26 in a boat

By manuipulating a formula do you mean making up an adjustment for the difference from water to air

utterly clueless

do you know what a "fluid" is ??

i'll explain it for you for extrapolating from oxford physicists :

a guy runs 1'55 off 55.00/60.00

what is even pace time ?

physics says it is

cube root for speed of the energy units after dividing by 800 :

( 400* ( 400/55)^3 ) + ( 400* ( 400/60)^3 ) -> 6.983m/s ->1'54.56

physics is not generous

The time he hacks off is unreasonable. Nobody has run 2s faster in a 1500m by just staying close to the runner in front.[/quote]

It might be more accurate if you could run exactly behind the runner in the right place & right distance behind. This is never going to happen though so the benefit is less than that given by Ventolin.

jjjjj wrote:

Mr. Obvious, consider that he just ran 27 flat in very warm temps at World's. 26:30 is very likely and I would not be surprised to see 26:20s in a race with an in-form Bekele. Kamworor could push him into the 26:30s at least.

How the hell do you figure Kamworor could push him into the 26:30s? He was in the race in Eugene and didn't push him to that time there. He set his PR in that race, a 26:52. There really isn't any evidence hat Kamworor can run any faster than that, so I don't see how you can possibly make this argument with a straight face.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

jjjjj wrote:

Mr. Obvious, consider that he just ran 27 flat in very warm temps at World's. 26:30 is very likely and I would not be surprised to see 26:20s in a race with an in-form Bekele. Kamworor could push him into the 26:30s at least.

How the hell do you figure Kamworor could push him into the 26:30s? He was in the race in Eugene and didn't push him to that time there. He set his PR in that race, a 26:52. There really isn't any evidence hat Kamworor can run any faster than that, so I don't see how you can possibly make this argument with a straight face.

I assume he expects Farah to win the race. So maybe Geoffrey takes Farah through 9 km on pace for 26:30 but can't hold it and dies to 26:45 or so?

It is theoretical of course.

For all to see wrote:

Guys, ventolin is a complete moron.

He once claimed that anaerobic 100m races are faster in Rieti and Eugene because the local trees pump more oxygen into the air. (!) I'm not kidding, you can find it in the threads somewhere.

Just think about how utterly stupid that suggestion is, on multiple levels.

Ventolin is a moron. Forget about him, don't waste your time.

How is that utterly stupid? The quality of air is known to affect athletic performance. The NCAA even allows conversions based on altitude. His specific claim about Rieti and Eugene may be incorrect but I don't see what is obviously utterly stupid about that.

Ididerod wrote:

For all to see wrote:

Guys, ventolin is a complete moron.

He once claimed that anaerobic 100m races are faster in Rieti and Eugene because the local trees pump more oxygen into the air. (!) I'm not kidding, you can find it in the threads somewhere.

Just think about how utterly stupid that suggestion is, on multiple levels.

Ventolin is a moron. Forget about him, don't waste your time.

How is that utterly stupid? The quality of air is known to affect athletic performance. The NCAA even allows conversions based on altitude. His specific claim about Rieti and Eugene may be incorrect but I don't see what is obviously utterly stupid about that.

Read the post. He once claimed that 100m races are faster in Rieti because the local trees pump more oxygen into the air. That is all the poster wrote.

Metric Miler wrote:

Read the post. He once claimed that 100m races are faster in Rieti because the local trees pump more oxygen into the air. That is all the poster wrote.

I did read the post. I'll ask again. What is so stupid about thinking that the trees pump more oxygen into the air and that this helps sprint times?

Ah Oui! wrote:

He could dip under 1:44.

Said Aouita could and Mo can too.

But Mo is faster at the 1500, 5000 and 10,000 than Aouita.

So he must be slower at the 800, right?

Star wrote:

Ah Oui! wrote:

He could dip under 1:44.

Said Aouita could and Mo can too.

But Mo is faster at the 1500, 5000 and 10,000 than Aouita.

So he must be slower at the 800, right?

Mo is faster at the 1500, 5000 and 10 000 than Rudisha. So over 800 ....???

Metric Miler wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

How the hell do you figure Kamworor could push him into the 26:30s? He was in the race in Eugene and didn't push him to that time there. He set his PR in that race, a 26:52. There really isn't any evidence hat Kamworor can run any faster than that, so I don't see how you can possibly make this argument with a straight face.

I assume he expects Farah to win the race. So maybe Geoffrey takes Farah through 9 km on pace for 26:30 but can't hold it and dies to 26:45 or so?

It is theoretical of course.

There'sa huge difference between theoretical and made up.

There really isn't any evidence that Kamworor can run any faster than 26:52, so the idea tha the is going to pace Farah to 26:30 is just made up.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

I assume he expects Farah to win the race. So maybe Geoffrey takes Farah through 9 km on pace for 26:30 but can't hold it and dies to 26:45 or so?

It is theoretical of course.

There'sa huge difference between theoretical and made up.

There really isn't any evidence that Kamworor can run any faster than 26:52, so the idea tha the is going to pace Farah to 26:30 is just made up.

Are you surprised every time somebody runs a personal best? Are you one of those people that thinks a runner can only manage what their PB states, like the idiots that think El Guerrouj could only run 1:47?

Geoffrey has only just started focusing on track distances, coming down from the half marathon. In this first year of focusing on track he has run 26:52 for the 10k.

This was a couple of months before the Beijing 10k final where he ran a brilliant race for silver. If you cannot objectively look at that performance and realise it was hot, had some slow opening laps and no pace makers and therefore was better performance overall than his PB set in May, then perhaps athletics is not the sport for you. It is not all about times. He was clearly in better shape than he was in May.

On top of all of that, a 26:50 10k runner could take Farah through 9k in the required 23:50 anyway. He can physically run that pace. Whether he then pulls out the race, or manages a slow 2:50-3:00 last km or continues on at ~2:40 pace is anyone's guess.

Ididerod wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

Haha, ok.

?

Please, I am not here to be your teacher. Go and read up on the physiology of the 100m (energy demands mainly) and also research as to why performances set at 1000m above sea level or more are classed as altitude assisted.

In case you didn't make the link, there is less air (and oxygen) at altitude.

Metric Miler wrote:

Please, I am not here to be your teacher. Go and read up on the physiology of the 100m (energy demands mainly) and also research as to why performances set at 1000m above sea level or more are classed as altitude assisted.

In case you didn't make the link, there is less air (and oxygen) at altitude.

Why are you being so rude? All I did was ask you to explain your opinion. That does not require you to be a teacher. It only requires you to make clear and non ambiguous statements.

There are more ways increased oxygen can affect a sprint race besides energy demand. But even just constrained to energy demand, 100m sprinting uses oxygen. So increased oxygen could make a difference. So while you decided to be rude... you're wrong.

Ididerod wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

Please, I am not here to be your teacher. Go and read up on the physiology of the 100m (energy demands mainly) and also research as to why performances set at 1000m above sea level or more are classed as altitude assisted.

In case you didn't make the link, there is less air (and oxygen) at altitude.

Why are you being so rude? All I did was ask you to explain your opinion. That does not require you to be a teacher. It only requires you to make clear and non ambiguous statements.

There are more ways increased oxygen can affect a sprint race besides energy demand. But even just constrained to energy demand, 100m sprinting uses oxygen. So increased oxygen could make a difference. So while you decided to be rude... you're wrong.

OK so I will be your teacher after all.

100m sprinting is nearly entirely anaerobic, there is no need to breathe during the race. The 10s of energy can and is provided entirely by anaerobic energy systems.

Furthermore, sprinting benefits from high altitude (unlike distance running) because the air is thinner so there is less resistance. This means less oxygen, but the times are faster.

Wtfunny wrote:

Star wrote:

But Mo is faster at the 1500, 5000 and 10,000 than Aouita.

So he must be slower at the 800, right?

Mo is faster at the 1500, 5000 and 10 000 than Rudisha. So over 800 ....???

Literally THIS.

I don't think people appreciate the type of athlete that can succeed at 800 and what goes in to training an 800m runner.

Star wrote:

Ah Oui! wrote:

He could dip under 1:44.

Said Aouita could and Mo can too.

But Mo is faster at the 1500, 5000 and 10,000 than Aouita.

So he must be slower at the 800, right?

He is slower not only than Aouita but slower than all-around GOAT distance runner AUGUSTINE CHOGE.

Who has ran FASTER than both Aouita and Farah at 3000m, faster than Aouita and about exactly as fast as Mo over 5000, faster than Mo over 800, and about exactly as fast as Aouita and faster than Mo over 1500 on non-spring-loaded tracks. And when he finally runs 10,000, being a little guy he is destined to easily run about 26:30 if not a world record.

Mo will never and CAN never get near cracking 3:30 anywhere but Monaco, that's a fact. He's not going to try anyhow, because he knows it's out of the question. Once the dope-scandal dust settles, nobody will be breaking 3:30 anywhere.

But as I said before, all the arguation and deano-vs-ventolin and stuff at least reveals the common ground that Mo is a PRETTY GOOD runner, as I've always said. If you compiled an all-time top 50 list, he'd definitely be on it. Nobody would deny that. Hats off to him.

You have demonstrated in the past your full hate for Mo, so your opinion is irrelevant ..no one is their rite state of mind can take you seriously when it comes to Mo Farah , for god's sake your almost had nervous break down when he won 10k in Bejing last summer WOW