Does aerobic training have an effect on your lactate threshold?

if it is done right at your aerobic threshhold...the point where you can still process oxygen without lactic acid buildup and anaerobia, then technically this should lower your lactate threshold...or maybe im way off base.

huh? no way. You want to RAISE your lactate threshold, not lower it. You want to be able to run as fast as possible while producing as LITTLE lactate as possible... Check out the words of Hadd:

"For a high LT you must train your legs. You must recruit and train as many fibres as possible so that they can be utilised in a race at high pace without creating lactate. This means causing them to become wrapped in capillaries (like spaghetti round a fork) so that all the oxygen that is coming in the blood from the heart can be got INTO the muscle cell. Then inside the cell you must stimulate creation of mitochondria and aerobic enzymes...

This is what is going to make you race as well as YOU possibly can. It can (and does) take years and many miles, which is why every year runners go back to base and try and raise their steady state/LT that little bit higher before going into the next season.

Aerobic training must be begun slowly. You are trying to recruit fibres while under fully aerobic conditions and use them until they become fuel exhausted and then recruit the NEXT fibre, and the NEXT, and so on. Your body will thus be stimulated to adapt itself to better supply energy aerobically NEXT time, and if you do this repeatedly, in time you will have a vast store of well trained aerobic fibres.

Done properly, in time you will be able to recruit sufficiently large amounts of these aerobically tireless fibres at the same time to be able to run at close to 5k pace without floods of lactate (even though you trained them all at much slower paces).

Now, to train the legs can take years, but to train the heart can take weeks or only brief months. Your VO2max plateaus quite early in your career (genetically, thanks Dad!), but can fluctuate throughout the season, dropping as you concentrate on endurance and rising as you add in the faster running later.

So at the beginning of the season, you work on the legs as soon as poss and for as long as poss.

To move your LT don?t just jump into so-called ?tempo? runs. These would be too fast/hard and not cause the effect you want. Begin from the ground up and work until eg: a 90 min is no longer ?long?. Then work until a once-or-twice-per-week 10-mile run at 5k-pace + 1 min is no longer hard (you could go round again, although you don?t). Then until a session of 3 x 20 mins @ 5k pace + 40 secs is not THAT uncomfortable (and you could do more)... and maybe only THEN begin to work at paces such as 5k-pace + 30 secs (2-3 x 15 mins) right on up... (eventually to 2000m repeats at 10k-pace). All the time being careful. You cannot rush this.

Now this LT work is where your greatest improvement is going to come long-term. Do not be like those interval-trained dudes who are hanging on from 3k onwards in a 5k race and fighting like hell not to let 1-2 secs slip per lap (this due to high lactate incurred in the opening first mile). The whole idea is not to learn to "tolerate" high lactate at race pace, but to train not to produce any (or as little as poss) at race pace. See the diff?

"

Was the question answered? I have an opinion, but I want facts! As HADD, via jasonlover, said, LT runs show the best improvement, but WILL AEOROBIC TRAINING IMPROVE YOUR LT? Sorry if the answer was there and I was too dense to pick it up. Remember, I want facts backed up by physiology. I too have opinions, and many of mine aren't worth squat!

By "improve your LT" you must mean RAISE your lactic threshold. And yes aerobic training raises your lactic threshold.... in the manner that HAdd described.

bump for someone who knows something

Define "AEOROBIC TRAINING".

jasonlover answered your question.

People run "threshold" workouts (Lactate Threshold, Anaerobic Threshold, Tempo Runs, etc) to increase the buffering capacity of their body in response to the presence of lactic acid and its biproducts.

As long as you're body is operating at an aerobic level, then lactic acid production will be limited. If oxygen is lacking, then lactate will be produced in greater amounts. This will result in the release of H+ ions as it is broken down for fuel. It is the accumulation of H+ in the muscle that will eventually halt muscle function, not the lactate.

"Aerobic training" or regular miles helps to recruit muscle fibers and helps to make the body more efficient at utilizing oxygen. More efficiency equals faster running at faster paces, and faster running in threshold workouts.

So yes, it helps.

Honestly I dont think any of you guys are getting the whole picture. Lactic Thresold is the point at which you clear lactic acid equaly to the production. Steady LT or temo runs improve your LT so you can thus run at a higher intensity without the negative accumalation of lactic acid. Or reach the point at which you body can no longer clear as fast as produce. Granted Aerobic work does not directly affect your LT. But rather highers the bar at which you begin to build up lactic acid. So you can run faster without producing lactic acid. So they are not truely wokring on the same prinicple. Aerobic Work produces capillaries and mitochondria which raises your vo2 max and aerobic capacity, thus allowing you to run fatser due to an increased level of aerobic power. Where as lactic threshold training improves you ability to clear lactic acid, which improves your economy and efficieny so you can run at the same intensity without producing as much lactic acid. You should still stress both forms of training, because a program that covers all principles of running is a sound one.

P.S. dont get confused with Aerobic Threshold(AT) runs either that is simply your normal base building intensity where you go run X amount of miles in order gain aerobic benefit.

AT is NOT your normal base building intensity. It is approximately similar to marathon pace.

I went a long time w/o anaerobic training. Too many on here act like it's a 2% formality of overall training. Without it for long periods, it can make someone resemble Joe Jogger at best.

nope wrote:

AT is NOT your normal base building intensity. It is approximately similar to marathon pace.

Unless you are training for a marathon than yes it not your base building pace. But for anything less you should be about that range, and slower if your recovering. But you should realy stive for AT pace on runs or your simply going to be a long slow runner

Yes, aerobic training (ie easy running, marathon paced runs, and lactate threshold training) all should help improve your lactate threshold pace. On easy runs when you are going slow you are still building capaillaries, developing aerobic enzymes, and increasing the size and density of mitochondria in your muscle cells. You are always ciculating trace amounts of lactate...but thats really besides the point unless you are doing an LT workouts or something of even a higher intensity. I'd think that just raising your weekly mileage (of just easy running) improves your LT much like your V02max can improve from increased mileage without specific V02max training.

Agreed, other than the running slow still builds capillaries, yes up to a point, but you realy should be in the 70% percent heart rate range(i believe, i can not recall the the exact heart rate percentage), or you are not getting much benefit, it becomes more of a recovery run.

I realize this is an old thread, but a lot of the posters above have indirectly answered the question.

Lactic acid (Lactate + H+) concentration= rate of production - rate of removal

If these are equal, lactic acid won't rise. Lactate threshold is the point where rate of production exceeds rate of removal.

How does aerobic training affect this?

1. Aerobic training increases mitochondrial number, which means more aerobic metabolism and less glycolysis and a slowed rate of production of lactic acid

2. Aerobic training improves removal due to the increased capillarization

What you explain is correct, but for how long can you continue to increase mitochondrial number and the number of capillars ? In my experience, with strong athletes but young athletes too, and also with some athlete of medium level, after about 3 years of REAL training (for example, 10 weekly sessions with a mileage of 150-180km per week, that is normal for these type of events), YOU CANNOT INCREASE THE NUMBER OF CAPILLARS and mitochondrial.

So, the real question is : because the increase of capillars is not unlimited, which type of training we have to use in order to improve our AEROBIC qualities ?

The answer is very easy : A LOT OF TRAINING IN THE AREA OF ANAEROBIC (or Lactic) THRESHOLD, at speed from 98 to 105% of the current LT.

For increasing the LT we have to give stimula to our body in 2 possible directions :

1) MORE INTENSITY, when we use the same duration (for example, if we are able to run 10 x 1000 in 3' rec. 1'30" now, after 3 months we must run 10 x 1000 in 2'55" / 2'57" with the same production ad accumulation of lactate, that means TO IMPROVE THE OBJECTIVE PERFORMANCE with the same INTERNAL LOAD)

2) MORE EXTENSION, when we use the same speed (for example, if we run 10 km in 31'40" at 3'10" pace, we go after 3 month to run 12 km in 38' at the same pace, that means more ability in removing lactate faster, in order to reduce the accumulation of lactate at the same speed).

The correct combination between these two types of stimula can help the athlete in enhancing his LT.

When you have a higher LT, you can run at the same speed with less lactate, or at higher speed with the same production and accumulation of lactate. This means that, using INTENSIVE ENDURANCE WORKOUTS, we can improve our SPEED ENDURANCE, because we can have the same INTERNAL LOAD with a faster pace. At the same time, we can improve our EXTENSIVE ENDURANCE, because we can last more long time at the same speed, reaching the same level of lactate after more km than before.

So, THE LONG CONTINUOUS RUN and LONG INTERVALS are the key for every type of improvement in middle and long distances, because are the means for enhancing the LT.

For short distances, THIS IS THE SPECIAL BASE for increasing volume and intensity of SPECIFIC TRAINING.

For middle distances (3000-10000), THIS IS SPECIFIC TRAINING, because the speed is between 98 an d 105% of the speed of the race.

For HM and Marathon, THIS IS THE SPECIAL HIGH SPEED that we must try to extend during the Specific Period.

Do you know of any research studies to support your anecdotal evidence?

If I remember correctly from all my Ex Phys./Biochem. courses, training at lactate threshold primarily improves the buffering capacity, and hence the ability to tolerate higher lactic acid concentrations (~buffering the H+ of the 'lactic acid', whereas lactate is used as a fuel source). This is why you observe very high blood lactate concentrations in hockey players.

jaguar1 wrote:

Do you know of any research studies to support your anecdotal evidence?

If I remember correctly from all my Ex Phys./Biochem. courses, training at lactate threshold primarily improves the buffering capacity, and hence the ability to tolerate higher lactic acid concentrations (~buffering the H+ of the 'lactic acid', whereas lactate is used as a fuel source). This is why you observe very high blood lactate concentrations in hockey players.

No, you don´t remember correctly. Training at LT raises the LT (the speed at which the lactate buildup and removal is equal). The lactate level at LT is fairly moderate.

hockey and other team sports that are at a fast high intensity are not training at lt, they are training way above lt. that is why they show high levels of blood lactate. they can tolerate very high levels for short periods of time.

high tolerance and the ability to buffer are not exactly the same thing.

memory wrote:

No, you don´t remember correctly. Training at LT raises the LT (the speed at which the lactate buildup and removal is equal). The lactate level at LT is fairly moderate.

Your statement is incorrect regarding what LT is (see my first post), and you're also missing my point on the second post. 'How' are you able to produce higher and higher lactic acid AND be able to tolerate it? This is where the improved buffering capacity of H+ comes into play from training 'around' lactate threshold.

Aerobic training/development allows you to maintain a lower lactate concentration at a higher speed and for a longer time, due to less production of lactic acid and greater capacity for removal.

And yes, high tolerance and the ability to buffer go hand-in-hand. The hockey player is the example I distinctly remember from class. Middle distance runners will generally have higher lactate thresholds than distance runners due to the demands of their event/training. Not that distance runners can't improve their lactate threshold (as described by Renato).