genetics aside, list top three things that separates a 4:10 miler from a 3:59 miler

toro wrote:

1. 800m training and speed development. The first 800 should feel slow compared to your 800 PR or ability

I went from 3:52 to 3:42 in one year for 1500m.

That is a huge drop. What was your 800 time in the 3:52 year vs. the 3:42 year? Significant difference? 400 time? What was added in terms of "distance and strength."

I think #1 is the most important, but #2 also huge. Disclaimer: I was never 4:00 or even close (high 3:40s 1500) but I did train with guys who were. They had 1 thing I did not: speed. Although this is genetic and not in response to OP, it can't be discounted. I was a high 51 400 @ best and they were all sub 50 or better guys.

Yeah I really do think 400m time is the true indicator of high level success at the 800m and 1500m.

Right, endurance is way over-rated.

Gene Summons wrote:

no you didn't wrote:

For 1400m maybe.

Jealousy will get you nowhere, brah.

I'm not jealous of your 3:56 1400. It's a solid time especially for a masters runner though, nice job.

Good Post wrote:

Gene Summons wrote:

Jealousy will get you nowhere, brah.

I'm not jealous of your 3:56 1400. It's a solid time especially for a masters runner though, nice job.

Envy is bad too.

Talent, aerobic strength, 400 speed, perseverance, mental toughness.

I once ran a 3:11 Mile.. There are photos of me starting and finishing if you want proof.

What were the big 3 factors in my success?

1. A lot of selfies in training

2. Focusing on under performing in all races going in to the 3:11 to allow me to be fresh mentally and physically for race day.

3. Is my own little secret that if I told everyone than anyone could run 3:11 regardless of their training or ability.

AW Pharmacy wrote:

Mostly genetics but there is an element of good coaching to ensure you are doing the right mix of training and at the right pace. Not just qualitatively but peaking correctly, getting in fast races and also staying healthy. So many guys as they get closer to 4:00 start thinking more is better, overtrain, and get injured.

But the big thing is genetics. Ten seconds doesn't sound like much but it is an eternity in that race and at that speed. If your body isn't built for it with the proper maximum cardiovascular capacity, fast/ slow twitch muscle composition, etc etc, you can train and race perfectly and you'll never break 4:00.

How can you claim that it is "mostly" genetics or that "the big thing is genetics" without knowing how genes actually affect any of those things?

Weedl wrote:

AW Pharmacy wrote:

Mostly genetics but there is an element of good coaching to ensure you are doing the right mix of training and at the right pace. Not just qualitatively but peaking correctly, getting in fast races and also staying healthy. So many guys as they get closer to 4:00 start thinking more is better, overtrain, and get injured.

But the big thing is genetics. Ten seconds doesn't sound like much but it is an eternity in that race and at that speed. If your body isn't built for it with the proper maximum cardiovascular capacity, fast/ slow twitch muscle composition, etc etc, you can train and race perfectly and you'll never break 4:00.

How can you claim that it is "mostly" genetics or that "the big thing is genetics" without knowing how genes actually affect any of those things?

Because without genetics you don't actually exist.

Mike Rossi Miler wrote:

I once ran a 3:11 Mile.. There are photos of me starting and finishing if you want proof.

What were the big 3 factors in my success?

1. A lot of selfies in training

2. Focusing on under performing in all races going in to the 3:11 to allow me to be fresh mentally and physically for race day.

3. Is my own little secret that if I told everyone than anyone could run 3:11 regardless of their training or ability.

lol

built with DNA wrote:

Weedl wrote:

How can you claim that it is "mostly" genetics or that "the big thing is genetics" without knowing how genes actually affect any of those things?

Because without genetics you don't actually exist.

POD

LM wrote:

built with DNA wrote:

Because without genetics you don't actually exist.

POD

Without food you wouldn't exist. Therefore breaking 4 is mostly about food.

The fastest guy from my HS ran 4:00 for the mile at 20 something. In HS, he had a 1:56.XX 800 and would have been lucky to break 55 sec for 400m, but he came from the endurance side and ran just over 28:00 for 10k.

Floating around on here are the stats of a European runner who ran 3:59.XX in the late 60s or early 70s. He also came from the endurance side and ran 54.XX for 400 or maybe 440 but he had a sub 64 minute half marathon.

Wait there's more wrote:

LM wrote:

POD

Without food you wouldn't exist. Therefore breaking 4 is mostly about food.

Gotta have the DNA to tell the food what to do.

toro wrote:

1. 800m training and speed development. The first 800 should feel slow compared to your 800 PR or ability

2. Distance and strength background. The first 800 should not take much out of you aerobically.

3. Experience and execution. The 4:10 miler can race himself towards sub 4 with the help of 1 and 2

I went from 3:52 to 3:42 in one year for 1500m.

I spent years training for the 800 and then added more distance that year.

Every race I worked on a different phase until I out it all together by the end of the season.

Toro's coach I believe was GMU's great John Cook. Proof that a good coach and a talented athlete can achieve some very good results.

Maybe you want to establish whether the two times are lifetime bests or comparing two guys that are the same age with similar backgrounds.

People act like there is no reason why the tried everything 4:10 guy can't run sub four.

Lifetime or currrent? wrote:

People act like there is no reason why the tried everything 4:10 guy can't run sub four.

No they don't.

haven't been reading the same wrote:

Lifetime or currrent? wrote:

People act like there is no reason why the tried everything 4:10 guy can't run sub four.

No they don't.

You must be new here. Believe me, that's coming.

The guy saying that we don't know what genes they are will mention that shortly.

Lifetime or currrent? wrote:

haven't been reading the same wrote:

No they don't.

You must be new here. Believe me, that's coming.

The guy saying that we don't know what genes they are will mention that shortly.

No it isn't. Two full pages in and no one has even mentioned the hypothesis that all 4:10 guys can run 3:59, except you.