This is a good point. I first heard of coe's blood transfusions as a child athlete pre-ben johnson and just thought it weird and extreme(the bag/tube may have dirt in it and why take the chance as its your blood anyway). Doping aka cheating wasnt in the collective consciousness yet, though we'd heard it makes you better. The eastern bloc looked truly odd to us but they werent great at track anyway so who cared.
The conversation was mid-90s so its maybe possible she did not have say sweden, but a passport check could prove it.
I dont think he was broadcasting it. And he was isolated and oloof anyway as he and his dad were a tight, admired unit. He was a rarified person.
So what indisputable evidence could the general student population get their hands on?
Moreover, whatever limited training team contact he had, they wouldve had a massive emotional bond with him, and respect. They wouldnt want to see it. Also, theyre not with him 24/7 so they could not see it. Besides his cover story could be hes training abroad for all sorts of reasons. Also its a blood frig, so i doubt they were privvy to his data. Its only inferred by performance. Ultimately, rarely in doping cases do the training partners blow the whistle.
Surely the answer is a full and rigorous investigation of the rumours. A lot of crime is solved by tip-offs. Albeit anonymous ones.
I do not get this preoccupation with the source. Coe is a rich and powerful man. Im skint and have dependents, my source probably doesnt want to go public for the same reasons. Look at what happened with Armstrong. How people were humiliated by him. Its terrifying. Coe could crush all of us. Thats why you must go sniffing and get the irrefutable evidence his lawyers cant sue you down to your boxers for. Has any investigative journalist ever checked him out? I think not.
One of Coe's biggest competitors once told me " we all knew what he was doing".
I don't really think it was a question.
Coejones wrote:
Toby dammit wrote:Coe definitely used blood transfusions to oxygenate his blood. A friend went to .
The best way to oxygenate your blood is to breath in oxygen. You can get all the oxygen you need to run as fast as anyone, but you need to be have world class efficiency to be world class, and then you need to balls to do it.
Yesum, it's all in your nervous system. Your balls are connected to your nervous system.
On justice wrote:
91 posts and you call it a "nutty thread"! People have doubts about coe. Rightly so. Everything i know about him has come from fellow athletes and this graduate who heartfeltly said to me in a canteen everyone at Loughborough knew he has blood transfusions abroad. She was a manager and definitely went to the elite uni whilst coe was there. Shes about 50ish, not into athletics. I dont know how old coe is. I never asked her for this info.
Im sorry i dont have photographs of him doing it! Youd say its an actor or its doctored anyway. Its unfortunate but all reasonable rumours should be checked out in these dark days for athletics. But why all the hostility to me whom has relayed a sincere witness's fact??
...unless you are covering up the cheating. Whats YOUR name? You are the cancer of athletics.
So you tried to silence me with 'ignore him, hes mad'. It hasnt worked. Plan B?
But you are mad. You aren't going to do anything about this silly story are you? And that's all it is. Read what you just wrote, it's garbled nonsense.
fred wrote:
Coejones wrote:The best way to oxygenate your blood is to breath in oxygen. You can get all the oxygen you need to run as fast as anyone, but you need to be have world class efficiency to be world class, and then you need to balls to do it.
Yesum, it's all in your nervous system. Your balls are connected to your nervous system.
fred, you remind me of someone else. Who could that be?
rojo wrote:Don't be a coward. If you are going to make this specific of an allegation, put your name out here with your email. I'll be happy to follow up. Hell just email me at
robertjohnson@letsrun.comif you don't want your name out and I'll follow up.
You are a highly respected Athletics journalist with a lot of connections
Here is a story you might want to investigate as I believe the accuser is a contactable X-country coach :
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/feb/13/lords.olympics2012"He was, however, accused of blood doping by an American athlete called Jeff Atkinson"
( There used to be many such stories in the past but this seems only one to have survived !? )
Now, Atkinson didn't have the best of 1500/Mile PBs, but I reckon those were severe under-performance as he managed to qualify for the team in Seoul in epic fashion :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Atkinson_%28athlete%29In '88 trials, he won, Scott just behind, & Spivey 4th !
In that race he led virtually all of last 500m
( briefly headed by Herrington at 1200 who finished 13th & last ! )
& therefore out-strengthed Scott & Spivey !!!
This just shows that Atkinson was a class athlete
( probably in about 3'32 shape, as you don't win trials in that magnificent a fashion even against a faded Scott who still managed 3'50.09 in '88 !! )
& his accusations have to be taken more seriously than some unknown message board poster...
Watch 4:10 to 4:25 of Snow interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBg6-_wrsOQ
Any body language experts to the reaction of that question?
Deanouk wrote:I've read rumours on these boards suggesting he went to Italy to blood dope, to the US, and now we have Sweden mentioned! I mean, really, he was certainly putting himself about a bit
that is well known
trained in many parts of the world & even for a period in US
People lap this sort of thing up under the protection of anonymity on an Internet message board, but then are too stupid to think that if all 3 claims are true
it was not hard back in those days to contact a private hospital clinic in those countries as those countries along with most every developed country have hugely developed non-govt provided healthcare systems - private hospitals/clinics
as someone said earlier, i woud luv to see his passport from late-'70s - late-'80s & correlate them with actual races
i am surprised no one mentioned switzerland as the secrecy there for any matter is legendary !!!
then you can guarantee there are lots of people out there and a very interested British press, who would have revealed all this long ago and made loads of money selling the story
that may be more to do with how inept that brit press was at chasing stories abroad
brit tabloid journalists doing investigative journalism is laughable !
you can guarantee the american or french press wouda been helluva lot more proficient at chasing down such a story but not same interest in those countries in coe
Coe was one of the first to use and be very open about the scientific side of training and testing for VO2, lactate threshold, etc
because he went to a clown college which was effectively a sports college with some degree thrown in back then to try to make it appear "academic"
no one with an academic degree from loughborough was taken seriously back then for a proper responsible job
the most clown of clown-colleges back then
Something that is fairly common place amongst the elites of today
eh ??
you have no clue
this kinda approach was used in the late-'60s in US with jack Daniels
That doesn't mean he was doping, and it would have been pretty stupid for either Seb or his old man to have TV cameras recording him on treadmills, talking about a scientific approach, and the such if he were indeed doping
utter nonsense
this kinda scientific approach wouda made it more likely to explore nefarious means of improvement as questions asked woud inevitably be :
how can i improve my V02 ?
how can i improve my lactate clearance ?
how can i increase my haematocrit ?
As far as I am aware, the only time he started getting his blood 'regularly tested'
utter nonsense
lactate-testing is complex blood-testing & he was likely doing this in late-70's
at very least he was having routine haematocrits, haemoglobin, ferritin, TIBC done back then, which provide huge info with which to work with
do you have no clue about physiology or medicine ???
when were you his personal physician, especially from late-70s ???
was after the bout of toxoplasmosis in 1983, as that never completely leaves the system and can lay dormant and flare up at a later date
utter nonsense
you have no clue about internal medicine
if the proper dose of anti-protozoals was taken for correct time, the disease wouda been cleared for life with no need to test ever again for toxoplasmosis
Testing was a necessity if he were to stop a reoccurrence of that
nonsense
it is not a recurrent infection
once cleared it is gone forever unless re-infected again
Diets have gotten worse over time.
Food was very clean in terms of pesticides and pollution (aluminum/mercury) compared to today or even 10 years ago.
You also have essentially estrogen being pumped into processed foods since the mid-90's, thus the drop off in performances especially for whites who are more likely to consume high carb, processed foods.
If white men for instance ate more natural diets with cleaner foods compared to the 70's and early 80's, with less fluoride in their water and less estrogen in their food, you might see in increase in performances.
You should see the studies that show what soybean oil and GMO's do to rat testicles, basically neutering them with diet.
like to see expert analysis wrote:
Watch 4:10 to 4:25 of Snow interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBg6-_wrsOQAny body language experts to the reaction of that question?
you don't need to be a body-language expert to see that wince !!!
Deanouk wrote:Do you not think it strange that everyone in Loughborough knew Coe was doping while he was there, except the likes of training partners, Tim Hutchings and Dave Moorcroft and Coe's other coach, George Gandy?
clueless
learn to think
"other coach" !!!
pa-coe called all the shots & gandy et al woud have had nothing to say or intervene when coe said
~ "i'm off for week's high-altitude training in ..."
they wouda just accepted as gandy had never coached a UK record breaking guy before coe & he musta considered himself lucky to be co-coach
Hutchings has always been an outspoken critic of doping and regularly commentates alongside Cram
so ?
he didn't travel all over the world with coe to train so how woud he know what coe was doing away from loughborough ???
You don't think they wouldn't have talked about such things if they really occurred?
seeing as hutchings never raced him why woud he comment ??
it woud be professional suicide for a brit athlete to accuse coe of doping
Cram, as someone else has stated on here, doesn't believe Coe or Ovett to have doped
nonsense veracity
was cram travelling all over the world with coe to the same, numerous "1 week high-altitude training in ..." ???
And if so many hundreds of students believed Coe to have doped, you don't think it strange that not 1 has come forward in 30+ years to make accusations that could make them a bucket load of money?
clueless
name how many went everywhere with coe on the same, numerous "1 week high-altitude training in ..." ???
It may well be true that many at Loughborough 'heard' Coe had doped
as saying goes
"no smoke without fire"
why did coe never sue jeff atkinson ???
that accusation is ruinous for coe !!!
It only takes one jealous teammate or someone with a grudge to bear, to tell a few people, they heard Coe went to Sweden to blood dope, for it to spread around campus like wild fire
i doubt it
coe was a national hero back then
young impressionable college-kids weren't going to be going around speading rumours about someone they idolised
even if they did, no one was going to take them seriously without some proof & none of them were elite 800 guys back then to mingle in same elite training circles around world as coe
That doesn't mean anyone has a shred of evidence, just that some fool wanted to feel better about himself
nonsense
it sounds like a lot of whispers back then but no-one taken seriously without proof as the huge majority woud only have occasionally or semi-occasionally seen/trained with coe but none wouda travelled all over the world with him
if nefariousness was being carried out, it is inept to think it wouda been done in britain where it coud be found out
How anyone can't see how rumours start is laughable
how someone can't see what the situation was back in late-'70s in even the clowniest of clown-colleges is utterly laughable
"Coe said the IAAF had tested more than 5,000 athletes since 2009, proof the organisation was serious about making the sport clean.
“The best way to cover up an anti-doping case is not to test athletes at all,†he explained. “We will continue to lead the fight against drugs in sport on behalf of all clean athletes. Those that cheat will be caught. Those that are caught will be thoroughly investigated and the guilty will face the fullest sanctions available.â€"
Ridiculous comment. As if they are not going to test athletes. Lead the fight? Really?
BadStats wrote:
Metric Miler wrote:I think it is quite difficult to get toxoplasmosis from your own blood.
I agree the feral cats argument feels a bit far fetched though.
Also comes from undercooked meat, which is probably how he really got it -- extremely common in continental Europe. I don't know why people claim Toxoplasmosis means he was blood doping, they have nothing in common. Although he certainly could have had something else and called it Toxoplasmosis to cover up.
"extremely common in continental Europe."
provide a source for this, total, bs assertation.
I've never once seen a rare piece of meat in Europe, and I've spent a year plus of my life there.
Toby dammit wrote:
With coe, his 1:41:73 wr was amazing, but it was suspicious he couldnt do anywhere near it in the olympics - only on a specially setup, untested blood testing-grand prix meeting. If he was so naturally qik hed do a david radisha: anihilate the opposition from the front.
Word on the circuit: Most elites believe Rudisha is a doper. True.
Inside word back in the day, Coe was blood doping. True.
Sucks, but them's the true opinions/word.
larkimm wrote:
Clerk wrote:The French police uncovered Diack.
No they didn't. The French police acted on information provided to them directly from the WADA commission report, in advance of publication.
Also, there was no failure at London to ensure adequate drug testing, nor did anyone minimise tests on GB athletes leading up the games.
Coe is also being maligned for his reference to a "war on athletics" with people joining this up with the ARD December 14 investigation. Coe made the war on athletics remarks in response to the snide insinuation by some media outlets (and no doubt some pseudo journalists and forum posters) about individuals made as a consequence of the reports from this year which tried to make a sensationalist headline out of bio passport data where in fact there was a far more nuanced story (still one of interest, I don't disagree, but not the story that the tabloid world wanted to run with).
Coe has been such a figurehead, and such a polarising figure in many people's minds (if for no other reason than that he was a Tory MP in the UK for a number of years) that if there had been any sniff at all of any information about him not being whiter than white when it comes to doping that it would have come out already.
Perhaps accusations about doping need to feature on snopes.com because the more I hear and read about people's "friend of a friend told me in 1983 when they were drunk and high" recollections of high profile athletes and their doping transgressions the more I just consider them to heading for the annals of urban myths.
Let's not forget Coe carrying on a long term affair, cheating on his wife...I don't suppose there could have been any lying involved in that. ..
Best Dressed List wrote:
Word on the circuit: Most elites believe Rudisha is a doper. True.
That actually isn't a widely shared opinion at the top, but thanks for playing. Better luck next time.
I like Rudisha, but that is not the common thought at the top? Kenyan guy coming from decathlon and smashing the record apart, and doing it at an Olympic final with a very up and down form that season.
Plus he promised Coe he would, always thought that stunk, Olympics is about winning not the time,
What is the threshold that separates a "hobbyjogger" from a "sub-elite" runner?
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