On the sprint side, they have Leroy Burrell and Carl Lewis--two former world record holders. So how many points did Houston score in the track NCAA's this year?
Zero.
Houston and Rice combined were outscored by Harvard.
UT, TAMU, and Texas Tech scored about 100 points combined, and there is plenty of track and football talent in Houston...but they all want to get outa town, period. Magness should not be blamed for this any more than Leroy and Carl should be blamed for this.
Recruiting seems to be the issue for Magness at UH, although his current freshman class looks to be an improvement on past efforts.
He's coaching at a school with no tradition to speak of, and all the best in-state kids are snapped up by texas, baylor, A&M, etc. and next to zero interest from out of state kids.
In many ways it's easier at a top tier DIII school or an Ivy, because of the academic prestige those schools can offer. Realistically, how many current college coaches could step into a school like Houston and turn it around in less than 4 years?
As I write this, it is 82 degrees and 73% humidity in Houston. Would YOU want to do 80+mpw in this? If you had the choice between doing this in Houston or Boulder, which are you going to pick?
OTOH, there IS a professional sprint group in Houston with some Jamaicans and other world class people, but Houston still has 0 points, and I think that's where the questions really should be directed. Steve seems to be a good guy who is having some success building a program from the ground up. Good luck to him.
Just for comparisons sake...
The Woodlands HS 3200 Time Trial
9:13
9:16
9:16
9:17
9:21
9:24
9:26
9:27
9:34
9:37
9:38
Houston @ Pre-Nats
23:42
24:51
25:03
25:33
26:20
26:37
27:05
For being a D1 University, with the great Scuba Steve Magness as coach, that is pretty embarrasing on a course that saw the top 210 runners under 25:00. And don't tell me Wyoming, IUPUI, Cambell, Bradley, Stephen F Austin, Utah Valley... etc all have distance tradition and great recruits. Those schools dismantled Houston last Saturday.
I firmly believe The Woodlands HS would beat Houston in a dual meet
UH: 1-2-4-9-16-17-18
TWHS: 3-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15
Distance runners can be recruited to UH, but they will most likely come from outside Houston of they'll come from poorer areas in Houston. This is why you see more El Paso, RGV, Alief, SW Houston athletes on roster.
Affluent Houston kids who are good runners and OK with staying in Houston will likely run for Rice instead.
Solid suburban kids will prefer to walk on at A&M or Texas.
I think Steve's biggest issue is recruiting. He is going to have to improve in this area so he isn't spending 4 years per athlete to get them to be serviceable. He needs guys starting out 4:20/9:20 or girls starting out 5:10/11:00 and not 15-20s slower per mile otherwise he is going to spend 3 years getting them to the equivalent of a UT or A&M freshman.
I don't really buy the excuse that Houston's location/history are what hold them up from being a good team.
Syracuse was a joke program when I started college. People thought this was due to the bad weather and relative lack of tradition. I went to a more prestigious nearby school with better facilities and a better program.
A great coach turned them into a regional power in 3 years, and a national player in 5 years. My alma mater went from crushing syracuse to barely being competitive with their B team.
They crush all the ivy league schools, despite those schools offering generous financial aid which pushes the cost of attendance far lower than what the syracuse guys are paying.
We are talking about a school in a crime-riddled northern rustbelt city with terrible weather. This school is also expensive.
Coaching isn't all about writing workouts. You need to build a program and a community of runners who succeed. To pretend otherwise is a way for bad coaches to stick their heads in the sand and dream that if they were at Oregon they could be Andy Powell.
Perhaps Jackie Areson will chime in on this. You both left the Oregon Project together and moved to Houston TX. How did that work out for you being coached by this self-proclaimed scientific coaching genius? It was a disaster!!! Just like he derailed his own running career he derailed yours. (People, remember this is the same guy who ran 4:01 in "high school" and NEVER broke 4 minutes for the mile. Just mind boggling with that god given talent. I can just imagine his explanation for this!!!) I would never ever let him coach my child even if it meant I had to pay for his or her tuition in full somewhere else. So far he's been a coaching disaster at all levels and detrimental to the future of T&F/running. Fact.
Al Lawrence won NCAA at the University of Houston. His team did too
Leroy Burrell and Carl Lewis are already seen as former athletes coaching on their name basis NOT on their ability to coach. Noone is surprised that they get nothing at nationals. Think Magic Johnson coaching.
If the BroJos are going to be putting someone up on their homepage three times a month all I ask is that this supposed Svengali can develop a team that can compete with a local high school in the same city.
As it stands Juris or Dan Green should get a quote on the homepage twice a month before Steve Magness.
Exactly. I think Magness is over-rated as a scientific mastermind, but it's clear he's terrible at just about every other aspect of coaching. You need to be able to recruit well, create a positive and hard working team culture, you need to be able to motivate, you need to be able to relate to the kids, etc. The fact that Magness has virtually no success is proof that he just stinks at everything.
coach d wrote:
On the sprint side, they have Leroy Burrell and Carl Lewis--two former world record holders. So how many points did Houston score in the track NCAA's this year?
Zero.
Houston and Rice combined were outscored by Harvard.
UT, TAMU, and Texas Tech scored about 100 points combined, and there is plenty of track and football talent in Houston...but they all want to get outa town, period. Magness should not be blamed for this any more than Leroy and Carl should be blamed for this.
May want to check your facts Coach D....
They had a JR run 13.31 for 3rd at NCAA's in the 110H
Also whoever compared Furhman or Syracuse's fully funded distance programs to Houston's 2 distance scholarships for women and 1.5 for the men must be joking. Do you realize how little 2 scholarships is for women in D1?!?!?!
The head coach is very up front at UH when hiring distance coaches. They tell you how it is going to be scholarship-wise.
What I'd probably be doing there is going all in on the DMR to add value in track. Then make what you can for XC.
So get a few running nerds from the suburbs for books (more than they'll get at A&M or Texas or Baylor, etc) and then pick up a few 800 guys who swing toward the mile. Sprints can supply a decent 400 runner. This way there is value added toward track (what is paying the bills) and you do what you can for XC with those 2-3 studs and the local running nerds who turn into 14:30 5k guys over 2-3 years.
Whoever suggested that Syracuse is the same as UH... Serious? That area also provides the top HS team in the nation in Fay-Man. It is a great training ground. UH is a harder sell. Not impossible, but harder. The other option is to go and get some internationals.
Magness is adding to his collection of post-collegiate runners. I think he has a former SFA runner or two along with a former A&M runner. Perhaps this is an ideal situation for him while he pursues his doctorate.
Texas HS Coach wrote:
The head coach is very up front at UH when hiring distance coaches. They tell you how it is going to be scholarship-wise.
What I'd probably be doing there is going all in on the DMR to add value in track. Then make what you can for XC.
So get a few running nerds from the suburbs for books (more than they'll get at A&M or Texas or Baylor, etc) and then pick up a few 800 guys who swing toward the mile. Sprints can supply a decent 400 runner. This way there is value added toward track (what is paying the bills) and you do what you can for XC with those 2-3 studs and the local running nerds who turn into 14:30 5k guys over 2-3 years.
Whoever suggested that Syracuse is the same as UH... Serious? That area also provides the top HS team in the nation in Fay-Man. It is a great training ground. UH is a harder sell. Not impossible, but harder. The other option is to go and get some internationals.
Magness is adding to his collection of post-collegiate runners. I think he has a former SFA runner or two along with a former A&M runner. Perhaps this is an ideal situation for him while he pursues his doctorate.
Houston need not be better than Syracuse, but there is nothing stopping the program from at least being respectable. You miss the point completely.
Do you think Chris Fox at Houston would field such a poor team?
Clearly the vast majority of posters to this thread are not college coaches...and yes, Chris Fox AND Vin Lannana would suck at Houston. Maybe not quite as bad but we're talking about very good, experienced coaches at the peak of their profession. No one here is saying Steve is at these guys' level yet. At worst, Steve is guilty of accepting a position everyone knew was going to be a dead end.
Magness is totally guilty of OVERSELLING himself with his know it all bloviating persona and now that he is UNDER DELIVERING he deserves a pass, please!!! He has no one now to blame but himself. If he kept his mouth shut, no one would say a thing. He can call out coaches and make accusations and now that the shoe is on the other foot you expect him to be treated differently. Fox, Lananna earned their stripes! Magness has not and should never have been given that job as now proven. He's not ready and I don't think he'll ever be.
The Champ wrote:
.
Do you think Chris Fox at Houston would field such a poor team?
YES
Hobby jogger UH alum wrote:
Magness is totally guilty of OVERSELLING himself with his know it all bloviating persona and now that he is UNDER DELIVERING he deserves a pass, please!!! He has no one now to blame but himself. If he kept his mouth shut, no one would say a thing. He can call out coaches and make accusations and now that the shoe is on the other foot you expect him to be treated differently. Fox, Lananna earned their stripes! Magness has not and should never have been given that job as now proven. He's not ready and I don't think he'll ever be.
So you're upset because he spoke out about things he felt were inappropriate during his time at NOP?
That seems to be the only reason this thread exists. People bitter about that situation. Steve has been at Houston for a couple years, and had mediocre results with the resources that come with that job. Nothing stellar, and certainly in the realm of the results the majority of coaches would have in that situation. hardly worth discussing, one way or the other.
So the only takeaway from that is that a thread is made specifically about Steve because people don't like him. That's fine, but don't act like he is failing as a coach. Be honest that you just don't like him.
No matter how you spin it he's not a good coach. The facts speak for themselves, unarguable!
XC dude wrote:
Exactly. I think Magness is over-rated as a scientific mastermind, but it's clear he's terrible at just about every other aspect of coaching. You need to be able to recruit well, create a positive and hard working team culture, you need to be able to motivate, you need to be able to relate to the kids, etc. The fact that Magness has virtually no success is proof that he just stinks at everything.
I hope Magness shows me that I am wrong; but merely by reading his blog, and seeing an occasional tweet,(which I admit isn't very much evidence) I'm not sure if coaching should be his "thing". He seems like he would be a better Tim Noakes or Dr. Ross Tucker - someone who can advance the knowledge base of sport physiology.
Though from what I have read of Ross Tucker (Science of Sport) I hope Magness can stand on the proverbial shoulders of Noakes.
Here's a fact: Athletes coached by Magness have broken the UH school records in the 3K and 5K indoors and the 800 and 5K outdoors in the last two seasons.
The truth hurts wrote:
No matter how you spin it he's not a good coach. The facts speak for themselves, unarguable!
what about sara hall?