Davey Gravy wrote:
he [Lagat] was running for the U.S. when he closed a sub 13 5000 in 51, which still seems a head and shoulders above any other U.S. runner (or nearly any runner from anywhere).
What does that have to do with the mile?
Davey Gravy wrote:
he [Lagat] was running for the U.S. when he closed a sub 13 5000 in 51, which still seems a head and shoulders above any other U.S. runner (or nearly any runner from anywhere).
What does that have to do with the mile?
I am fine with those that say Ryun would win this race.
It was actually my first thought.
And I don't mean because he was so great back then compared to his contemporaries.
I think in his 1968 fitness he may win this race against today's guys at their best.
How is this even a question?
Centro is THE MAN
He has been unquestionably the best in the US for years now.
He is now the best the US has EVER had.
And he will soon be the best in the world.
How is it that you folks took so long to get it?
SWEDES wrote:
He ran in the 46's numerous times in the mile relay, including a 46.9 split his freshman year at KU on the same day he ran a 3:55 mile.
He only ever ran ONE 440 split under 47, not 'numerous', and that was the 46.9 you mention at the KU relays.
But I agree, he had the best 400 speed of all those names mentioned.
If the race went out to 3:37/ 3:54 pace, then I think Ryun would possibly be favourite. Anything faster and Lagat would be more likely to win IMO.
I think a peak Scott (1982/83) would beat Centro in his present form.
If they were to race a dozen times, with a dozen different possible paces/ tactics, then I'd put them in this order, when looking at their accumulated positions: -
Lagat,
Ryun,
Scott,
Centro,
Webb,
Maree
Didn't Liquori beat Ryun in their prime?
Ackley wrote:
Didn't Liquori beat Ryun in their prime?
No.
This race is all you need to know to answer this question
reader of the forums wrote:
Ackley wrote:Didn't Liquori beat Ryun in their prime?
No.
Ryun #1 in world in 1966 and '67
Liquori #1 world 1969 and '71
Contemporaries but Liquori was about 3 years younger. Although Ryun's peak was probably more dominant than Liquori's, Ryun was still only 22 or so in 1969. So it's not like he was an over the hill geezer when they raced.
Star wrote:
Davey Gravy wrote:he [Lagat] was running for the U.S. when he closed a sub 13 5000 in 51, which still seems a head and shoulders above any other U.S. runner (or nearly any runner from anywhere).
What does that have to do with the mile?
It means he's not getting dropped and he's not getting out kicked.
rojo wrote:
Are you guys crazy???
Looking at American born athletes, Ryun obviously is in the mix, but Cnetro isn't in the mix? Are you crazy? Seriously.
I think Centro is better right now than Steve Scott in his prime.
Centro was 4th in the Olympics when he barely trained that year as he was hurt (Scott was 5th). Centro's got 2 worlds medals (scott has 1 although worlds weren't held as often back then).
Yes Scott ran 3:47 but Centro's 1500 pb is better than Scott's. Centro's 3:31.09 converts to 347.98 in the mile.
And I think Centro this year is better than in the past.
Scott ran 347 at age 26. Centro will be 26 next year.
So the best of Centro will probably be 2015-16-17. To say he's not in the mix with Scott is absurd. We're talking about a real race not a time trial right?
Big Guy
It's worth looking at historical stats & some races
Scott won '80 trials in ? 3'35+ with long solo effort
Respected commentator said it was 3'33+ if not for wind
( it's in the "History of US Trials by Hymans"
I'll try to find link but google it
Only bayi has run a faster near-solo 1500 ( albeit that 3'32 was windy meet )
Scott lost his form after trials
Also, his '83 Mile WR attempt was terrible, with him kicked so badly at start he got pushed out into lane 4 !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wqac7agOBgThe pace after was a snail's pace to bell
He was in 3'46-flat shape that day if fast, even pace to bell
He lost 1500 in Helsinki as pace was so damn slow & Cram had likely 1'43-flat speed & just outsprinted him
Mike Rossi
Wolf Spritzer wrote:
reader of the forums wrote:No.
Ryun #1 in world in 1966 and '67
Liquori #1 world 1969 and '71
Contemporaries but Liquori was about 3 years younger. Although Ryun's peak was probably more dominant than Liquori's, Ryun was still only 22 or so in 1969. So it's not like he was an over the hill geezer when they raced.
Ryun was pretty good in 1968, but still a good bit off his form from just 1 year earlier. The 1968 Ryun was also worse than the 1966 Ryun.
From 1969 onwards, it wasn't even close. He was nowhere near his peak. It wasn't an age thing. From 1969 until he retired he was not merely past his best, but rather, he was nowhere near it, synthetic tracks be damned.
1. Jim Ryun
2. Hicham El Guerrouj
You can switch these if you want and I wouldn't argue. Put several other possibles at number 3. No one but these two belongs in the top two spots in their prime at 1500 meters or the mile.
Jonathan Gault wrote:1. Lagat. Pick a year from 2005 to 2007, I don't think it matters. He won Worlds in '07 in the 1500, not other American can say that. (James Lightbody and Mel Sheppard won Olympic gold in 1904 and 1908 but Lagat would wipe the floor with them)
puhleeeze
Bernie was out to 3'28+ by then from awesome 3'26 peak with ~ 53+ finish in '01
i saw all Bernie's big races on euro circuit
3'28+ won't cut it
2. 2015 Centro. Centro already has two WC medals and he's better now than he was in either of those years
yes
Yes, I think Centro would beat Ryun
wow !!!
Ryun's prime was 50 YEARS AGO
Secretariat's prime was 42y ago !!!
you see any horse who drew breathe seeing him beating him at Derby/Preakness, let alone Belmont !!!
Ryun was tremendous
clearly it didn't impress on you enough this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUsEuv3Debsthat is the "Belmont -'73" of middle distance running, on a track chewed up by 10k earlier
i have seen near every fast 800/1500 bar 5% of last 40y
90% of every sub-1'43 on satellite/network/web & 95% of every sub-3'30 including hicham's legendary attempt at 3'24 in rieti '02 where he "blew up" to 3'26-high
i can tell you now, Ryun of Dusseldorf vid above, in a perfectly paced 800 /1500 to bell on '70's synthetic was worth
~ 1'39-high
3'24-low
trust me
take that to the bank
but in almost every sport on earth, the best guys from today would beat the best guys from 50 years ago
no
King Carl had hugely debatable 30+ LJ over 33y ago
there has been no improvement in events due to total lack of interest
do you seriously think rutherford coud carry the King's jockstrap ???
Ryun's times would improve given modern facilities/spikes, but I don't know if that would be enough
Epstein said 1.5% for assumed pristine/dry dirt :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COaMKbNrX0After that I'm less certain
improve
Probably Ryun over Scott for third, but it depends how much credit you give Ryun for running slower times on slower tracks
not much more than 1.5% for Epstein's presumed pristine, dry, dirt
Ryun rarely ever got that good dirt
Dusseldorf was run after a 10k which musta smashed that dirt to utter detritus
And them, I'd say Webb 5th. In his prime
he was worth 3'45-high in record
he chased a poor time in 3'47.6
therefore unambitious pacing which stultifies ultimate time
he had 3'45-high in him that day if chasing 3'47-low & faster pacers
he'd give all of these guys a run for their money with a good race, but he was just not consistent enough. He made two WC finals and was 8th and 9th
at his best he was great
Sydney Maree and 2012 Manzano (in a slower race) are also in the mix
maree always a 'bok
that 3'29.77 was with tiredness as a 3'32+ just 44 hours earlier in berlin
he was in no way in any shape to run 3'29.77 in koln but had incredible endurance
( nearly 5k WR - he wouda broken moorcroft's 13'00.4 if paced better to 3k, but aouita outsprinted him
maree made aouita's 13-flat wr )
have decency to let this post exist
Shawn H wrote:
1. Jim Ryun
2. Hicham El Guerrouj
You can switch these if you want and I wouldn't argue. Put several other possibles at number 3. No one but these two belongs in the top two spots in their prime at 1500 meters or the mile.
Guess I missed the part where Hicham El Guerrouj got his US citizenship.
Yes, yes, I just re-read the post and saw the "US" part. Duh. Ok, Ryun and then Lagat. But my overall picks for top two in the WORLD ever remain the same. :-)
Some of you halfwits seem to have forgotten that Ryun ran the last 300 meters of a meet in Dresden in 27.9 in wet cement.
Anyone who doesn't have Ryun as the favorite is smoking the funny stuff.
Distaff wrote:
1. Decker
2. Simpson
3. Favor
4. Wysocki
5. Rowbury
Yes, I'd love to see what people have to say about the top female miles. I don't know enough myself to contribute, but I do know Simpson is a badass.
Deanouk wrote:He only ever ran ONE 440 split under 47, not 'numerous', and that was the 46.9 you mention at the KU relays
clueless
he ran 46.9y meaning 440y on a quagmire at 18y !!!
he did it with 3'55+ in his legs !!!
probably worth 3'47+ at 18y on a '70s synthetic
then a 45-flat/low at 18y !!!
that quagmire was so bad that that the LJ had to have a conveyor-belt placed on it in order to have a competition !!!
http://kuhistory.com/articles/ryuns-run/But I agree, he had the best 400 speed of all those names mentioned
quantum leap better
probably 45.0-flat/low at 18y
If the race went out to 3:37/ 3:54 pace, then I think Ryun would possibly be favourite
nonsense
1'39-high or 3'24-low pace woud be his best pace
just simple annihilation pace to bell is what guy begged for
Anything faster and Lagat would be more likely to win IMO
nonsense
1'39-high/3'24-low shape here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUsEuv3DebsI think a peak Scott (1982/83) would beat Centro in his present
form
nonsense
scott capable of 3'46-low in '83 if not hugely kicked sideways into lane 4 at start & crap pace to bell
centro has work to do to get to do to get to scott let alone Ryun
If they were to race a dozen times, with a dozen different possible paces/ tactics, then I'd put them in this order, when looking at their accumulated positions: -
Lagat,
Ryun,
Scott,
Centro,
Webb,
Maree
it's utter nonsense
apart from Ryun not being 12/12, you are inept enough to forget sydney ran 3'32+ just 44 hours before reiti 3'29.77
i saw both races live on tv which you never woud have as kid back then
it was a miracle sydney coud even break 3'33 after his exhausted 3'32 in berlin
it was incredible & he shouda run 3'29-flat if not for fatigue of berlin race
that was from watching it live on tv in '86