Ben True Doesn't Take Ibuprofen, Takes Vitamin D, Probiotics, and Melatnonin When He Can't Sleep, and Gatorade "Twice a Year"

jewbacca wrote:

So we're agreed it's an equivalent class of drug to Cytomel? Performance enhancing, but not banned.

Because of how it is apparently used by some, Cytomel is a far more effective PED than any sleep aid could be for a distance runner. It allows athletes to drop to famine-victim body fat levels yet maintain high metabolism. Normally if you starve yourself, your body rebels and shuts down to save precious energy.

The east Africans win because of their generally sparse diet during childhood. They grow up with small or thin skeletons and naturally low body weight. Westerners can't usually achieve such low weight and remain at their athletic peak. Some seem to have overcome that disadvantage with thyroid boosters and perhaps a few other things.

For those who don't know, vitamin D is said to prop up testosterone levels. Can't ban a vitamin. Get that sunlight.

I'm not screaming anything now; certainly not doping scandal. I'm just pointing out the obvious difference between a commonly used over the counter drug that's not on WADA's banned list and thyroid medicines that require both a prescription and a TUE for an athlete to use. As for your prescription strength ibuprofen, I don't know. Is it on WADA's banned list at a certain strength? Even if it is I doubt I'd scream anything much at all unless maybe someone needed to fly halfway across the country to get one particular doctor to prescribe it because nearly all other doctors say it's unnecessary. And even then, well, I'm more of a head scratcher than a screamer..

I'm a big Ben True fan but the gatorade comments are a bit weird, maybe just a bit loopy after the race or trying to play this up blue collar thing. Did he comment on whether he's drank lemonade or pop in the past year? That's the same thing as Gatorade, minus a pinch of salt.

chcgornr wrote:

I'm a big Ben True fan but the gatorade comments are a bit weird, maybe just a bit loopy after the race or trying to play this up blue collar thing. Did he comment on whether he's drank lemonade or pop in the past year? That's the same thing as Gatorade, minus a pinch of salt.

Skiing was for the rich kids where/when I grew up, so I've been skeptical about the idea that True was a "blue collar runner" because he was a part time skier and part time runner.

uishjdkjskjd wrote:

chcgornr wrote:

I'm a big Ben True fan but the gatorade comments are a bit weird, maybe just a bit loopy after the race or trying to play this up blue collar thing. Did he comment on whether he's drank lemonade or pop in the past year? That's the same thing as Gatorade, minus a pinch of salt.

Skiing was for the rich kids where/when I grew up, so I've been skeptical about the idea that True was a "blue collar runner" because he was a part time skier and part time runner.

I mean it is like: See that guy there? He's a real "blue collar runner," he did lots of tennis in highschool and college, so you know he's legit, not like that privileged guy who just ran year round, man, I hate THAT guy.

HRE wrote:

I'm just pointing out the obvious difference between a commonly used over the counter drug that's not on WADA's banned list and thyroid medicines that require both a prescription and a TUE for an athlete to use.

Cytomel is neither on WADA's banned list nor requires a TUE.

So the difference between it and melatonin is a prescription.

I don't understand your distinction between prescription and non-prescription meds. If it isn't on the WADA list, what does it matter? Caffeine is a PED and is on the WADA list above a certain concentration, yet is obviously over-the-counter.

Just because melatonin is a sleep aid is available OTC doesn't mean it isn't also a PED.

jewbacca wrote:

HRE wrote:

I'm just pointing out the obvious difference between a commonly used over the counter drug that's not on WADA's banned list and thyroid medicines that require both a prescription and a TUE for an athlete to use.

Cytomel is neither on WADA's banned list nor requires a TUE.

So the difference between it and melatonin is a prescription.

I don't understand your distinction between prescription and non-prescription meds. If it isn't on the WADA list, what does it matter? Caffeine is a PED and is on the WADA list above a certain concentration, yet is obviously over-the-counter.

Just because melatonin is a sleep aid is available OTC doesn't mean it isn't also a PED.

Food contains vitamins.

Vitamins are PEDs.

Everyone is a PED user.

QED

jewbacca wrote:

Cytomel is neither on WADA's banned list nor requires a TUE.

So the difference between it and melatonin is a prescription.

And that it is an effective PED for distance running, while melatonin is not. It's still legal because WADA is behind the curve and not interested in catching up.

Caffeine is a PED and is on the WADA list above a certain concentration

not anymore, as of years ago. It's on the "monitored" list which means nothing.

I'd like to see actual research that Cytomel by itself is an effective performance enhancer for elite distance runners. Melatonin is a hormone used by bodybuilders to build muscle and burn fat. Research shows that it significantly increases hGH in men. Cytomel is also used by bodybuilders to burn fat. Both are only available by prescription in some countries.

Caffeine is a stimulant that is a proven performance enhancing drug that was banned at certain levels. Some athletes have used caffeine with the sole intent of creating a stimulant effect and increasing performance.

For those that hate NOP, there seems to be no consistent criteria for what constitutes doping or unethical practices. Obviously, it's not the WADA list. It can't be using a non-WADA listed, performance-enhancing drug or caffeine would be unethical. But maybe using caffeine solely for the enhancement of performance is not unethical because it's not a prescription drug.

Maybe the criteria is:

- prescription drug

- performance enhancing

But certain drugs like melatonin are prescription only in some countries. Who gets to decide if a drug or supplement is performance enhancing?

Devil Dog wrote:

really guys? wrote:Is this really what this sport has become now? A fight over who CLAIMS TO BE taking the least medicine?

Fixed.

I agree. If Rupps not on testosterone or andro-gel or any other illegal peds than this whole debate is pretty stupid.

Newsflash - lots of people have asthma and take medication and are not instantly world class. All asthma medication does is allow you to breathe like a normal person. Any other benefit is negligible or it would be illegal.

The same can be said for thyroid mess unless you are on HGH, which there have been no allegations of.

Nope. Maintaining a "high metabolism" while being super skinny is not some great advantage. Have an over-active thyroid gland (the equivalent of dosing your thyroid levels to a high level) HURTS performance in athletes. This is well documented. The "high metabolism" you talk results in:

high resting HR and rapid and sometimes and irregular heart beat,

tremors,

muscle WEAKNESS,

high body temperature and sweating while resting

difficulty sleeping and/or insomnia

restlessness

sensitivity to heat

shortness of breath and/or difficulty breathing

overall fatigue

THAT is a "performance enhancer" ?? C'mon, Wiggo, once again, you are pretending you know about something you don't.

Now having a underactive thyroid is a disadvantage too. Cleary Al and Co. believe that getting one's thyroid levels towards the upper level or normal is better than the lower level of normal. This is a questionable tactic both from a physiological standpoint and an ethical standpoint. But Kara Goucher went on thyroid meds before Al touched her. And we don't know what Rupp's levels were before he started the meds. Maybe they were legitimately low.

the E. Africans win for many reasons. Being thin is just one of them. Plenty of westerners are as naturally thin as they are.

logician wrote:

Food contains vitamins.

Vitamins are PEDs.

Everyone is a PED user.

QED

Yeah, no. That's a variation on the "everyone was doing it." excuse.

The cytomel assists with dramatically improving W/kg. Way beyond eating fruits and veggies.

Testosterone is fantastic for recovery and there's plenty of room to never test positive with a positive threshold of 4:1. Most humans test very near 1:1 with teenagers coming in slightly higher. 2:1 is definitely doping in nearly all cases, 4:1 is crazy and dangerous.

A prescription is a significant difference.. If you can get a prescription for something that's not on the WADA list and want to use it that's fine and you probably got that prescription because someone qualified to write it decided you needed it. If I recall, the issue about Cytomel for Kara Goucher is that she claims she was pressed to use it to help get rid of the last of her baby weight and Cytomel specifically is not to be used for weight loss even though it can induce it so if her story is correct she was pressured to misuse a prescription drug and that's regarded as a problem and is therefore illegal.

Melatonin is a sleep aid. True uses it when he can't sleep. Sufficient sleep generally improves performance so, yes, melatonin is a PED. A comfy mattress would be too.

pop_pop! wrote:

logician wrote:

Food contains vitamins.

Vitamins are PEDs.

Everyone is a PED user.

QED

Yeah, no. That's a variation on the "everyone was doing it." excuse.

The cytomel assists with dramatically improving W/kg. Way beyond eating fruits and veggies.

Testosterone is fantastic for recovery and there's plenty of room to never test positive with a positive threshold of 4:1. Most humans test very near 1:1 with teenagers coming in slightly higher. 2:1 is definitely doping in nearly all cases, 4:1 is crazy and dangerous.

Are you an endocrinologist?

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

It's interesting that all these runners are taking Vitamin D despite being out in the sun so much. They probably use SPF 100 or whatever.

Anyway, as I have said for a long time, unless you're working as a lifeguard or a farmer on the field, you should substitute with Viatmin D in high doses (3000+ IUs per day).

Or, just lay out a bit more in the sun without SPF during mid-day when the UVB concentration is highest.

Totally agree.

HRE wrote:

Melatonin is a sleep aid. True uses it when he can't sleep. Sufficient sleep generally improves performance so, yes, melatonin is a PED. A comfy mattress would be too.

How can a mattress be a performance enhancing drug?

Even if True only uses melatonin for sleep (which is totally irrelevant since it isn't banned), he still gets the performance enhancing benefits of the drug.

You are completely ignoring the article I posted showing melatonin to be more than a sleep aid. Increasing HGH production is a direct benefit of the drug and not of sleep effects. To me it seems dishonest to call it equivalent to a comfy mattress.

Your previous statement equating chocolate milk to a drug also seems disingenuous. You are something of a health care professional, aren't you HRE? Why make statements that are blatantly misleading?

Finally, I see your point about prescription vs non-prescription, but the WADA list should be the standard for legal vs illegal. A person can't be banned for using Cytomel for weight loss.

Bad Wigins wrote:

jewbacca wrote:

Cytomel is neither on WADA's banned list nor requires a TUE.

So the difference between it and melatonin is a prescription.

And that it is an effective PED for distance running, while melatonin is not. It's still legal because WADA is behind the curve and not interested in catching up.

This is quite a statement, is there research to back it up? I believe that increasing HGH production would be quite a benefit to distance runners.

Also, I thought Cytomel used to be on the WADA list but was removed.

Caffeine is a PED and is on the WADA list above a certain concentration

not anymore, as of years ago. It's on the "monitored" list which means nothing.

You're correct, I misread cathine as caffeine on the list. But you could replace pseudoephedrine with caffeine and the statement remains the same. OTC, performance enhancing, banned above a certain concentration.

You know, all you have to do is go here to find if the drug is banned or not...

http://list.wada-ama.org/

there really is no need to create your own list, then convince others that it is actually a "PED". Its not.

No one is microdosing on melatonin dude.

Amerikano wrote:

You know, all you have to do is go here to find if the drug is banned or not...

http://list.wada-ama.org/

there really is no need to create your own list, then convince others that it is actually a "PED". Its not.

This is exactly my point. The brojos starting this thread is implying True is somehow a more pure runner than Rupp. The irony is they included melatonin, which has performance enhancing characteristics.

The WADA list is the standard. Not Ben True.