2nd Former Nike Oregon Project Massage Therapist Comes Forward And Admits He Had Grave Concerns - Went To USADA In 2012

I'm missing the logic here. Why would Salazar have to rub anything on Rupp? Why couldn't Rupp just do it himself? Unless you are suggesting that Salazar was doing it without Rupp's knowledge or consent. Is that what you are saying?

comical stuff wrote:

Read the rest of the article. Put two and two together. No doubt Salazar wanted to "massage" Galen so he could rub androgel on him.

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

I'm missing the logic here. Why would Salazar have to rub anything on Rupp? Why couldn't Rupp just do it himself? Unless you are suggesting that Salazar was doing it without Rupp's knowledge or consent. Is that what you are saying?

Don't be stupid. Rupp allowed it. Rupp consented.

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

I'm missing the logic here. Why would Salazar have to rub anything on Rupp? Why couldn't Rupp just do it himself? Unless you are suggesting that Salazar was doing it without Rupp's knowledge or consent. Is that what you are saying?

Obviously. Salazar is a weird enough guy to do it.

You know what they say... keep Portland weird.

Awwww how cute, a fanboy trying to hopelessly defend the lame ducks

[quote]Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

I'm missing the logic here. Why would Salazar have to rub anything on Rupp? Why couldn't Rupp just do it himself? Unless you are suggesting that Salazar was doing it without Rupp's knowledge or consent. Is that what you are saying?

[quote]comical stuff wrote:

IF Salazar was massaging Rupp with Androgel - and so far there's no real evidence that's the case - then it could easily have been without Rupp's knowledge. Also, Salazar applying the androgel would give Salazar direct control over the amount used. There could be other reasons as well, but I don't have the expertise to know what those might be. Where's Victor Conte when you need him?

More people have come forward over the past week and you should expect another article to be released soon by David Epstein. Salazar should probably consider not releasing a statement because it will most likely contradict anything that he is about to release. Getting caught in a lie is the worst part about cheating and getting caught. Best thing he can do is admit to it and retire immediately. The more he fights the bigger club they are going to use to take him down. It's only a matter of time until the big hit comes and it won't be long.

jewbacca wrote:

I like that runDIRTYrun expects "detailed responses" when we would just like "detailed outlines" of cheating before casting stones.

How about we get detailed responses for the allegations raised thus far, and then you can expect more details on other allegations. Seems fair to me.

inside info wrote:

More people have come forward over the past week and you should expect another article to be released soon by David Epstein. Salazar should probably consider not releasing a statement because it will most likely contradict anything that he is about to release. Getting caught in a lie is the worst part about cheating and getting caught. Best thing he can do is admit to it and retire immediately. The more he fights the bigger club they are going to use to take him down. It's only a matter of time until the big hit comes and it won't be long.

If you know Salazar then you know he will go down in flames before admitting he did anything wrong, improper, or inappropriate. Salazar is now done in by his own massive ego, and his desperate need to feed it by any means possible.

dkny64 wrote:

Where's Victor Conte when you need him?

In case that is not what you were implying, don't forget that Salazar's name was involved in the Balco scandal.

One thing that was interesting to me was that Kupczak spoke of how Salazar changed from when he was around him in 2006 (nice guy) to 2008 (turned all secretive). It makes me speculate that perhaps Salazar started off thinking he could do the NOP thing clean, using superior technology to produce world-beating runners. Then, at some point, he realized it couldn't be done, and turned to PEDs (hence the need for secrecy).

Rupp's consent wrote:

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

I'm missing the logic here. Why would Salazar have to rub anything on Rupp? Why couldn't Rupp just do it himself? Unless you are suggesting that Salazar was doing it without Rupp's knowledge or consent. Is that what you are saying?

Don't be stupid. Rupp allowed it. Rupp consented.

You have to be careful here about Rupp's role. Al Sal is in a position of authority over Rupp so the dynamic is almost worse, Al Sal as perpetrator.

Chris Carmichael doped kids in cycling using a combination of authority, "I'm the coach. Do as I say or leave." and appealing to the kid's own desire to excel.

Could Rupp be insensitive to the fact exogenous Test was a kind of cheating like an Armstrong? Sure. But, Al Sal's role as an authority figure is an important catalyst.

jewbacca wrote:

And what sounds loudest is the lack of "Salazar asked me to dope."

So, Ms. Fleshman's specific statement that Al Sal wanted her to take a medication to her physical limit, not the prescribed dose, because Al Sal is seeking an androgenic effect isn't asking Ms. Fleshman to dope?

Really?

porcher wrote:

jewbacca wrote:

I like that runDIRTYrun expects "detailed responses" when we would just like "detailed outlines" of cheating before casting stones.

How about we get detailed responses for the allegations raised thus far, and then you can expect more details on other allegations. Seems fair to me.

I absolutely agree with you and see where you are coming from, but your argument isn't relevant to the OP statement. We are simply saying we aren't jumping on board with anything until we know more. You already have jumped on board so you don't NEED any rebuttal from AlSal.

I do assume the NOP unfaithful would love to see him hang himself with one or two, however. :)

jewbacca wrote:

I like that runDIRTYrun expects "detailed responses" when we would just like "detailed outlines" of cheating before casting stones. People need to stop hiding behind the "17 athletes" argument, because those 17 athletes aren't saying they saw anyone dope.

This is a false choice.

Both statements are true: a systematic doping program ran by senior NOP coaching staff, and there is no "proof" of doping as there has never been a sanctioned positive.

Lance Armstrong to this day has never tested positive. Marion Jones never tested positive. Al Sal's child was used to dose exogenous Test to "never test positive." Rupp has never tested positive for exogenous Test.

You are doggedly hanging onto the latter to deny the former.

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

Salazar massaging Rupp is a little weird on an interpersonal level, but doesn't sound illegal or suspicious to me. Rupp could rub in his own androgel without Alberto's help, right?

Salazar may not be telling his athletes that the massage cream is a banned substance... It is unlikely Rupp would willingly cheat. This is why Salazar is so pissed off about this situation because Rupp trusted him and now Salazar's actions will cost Rupp everything. It's a shame.

Opinionated guy wrote:

dkny64 wrote:

Where's Victor Conte when you need him?

In case that is not what you were implying, don't forget that Salazar's name was involved in the Balco scandal.

I had forgotten about that - thanks for the reminder. I just meant Conte is good at giving simple explanations of what various doping products are thought to be good for, how they're typically taken and why.

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

I didn't read anything in this article that sounds like evidence. It sounds like suspicion. Maybe some confirmation bias at work?

Salazar using androgel himself I think is at least 50/50 chance of being legit and prescribed properly by a doctor.

Salazar massaging Rupp is a little weird on an interpersonal level, but doesn't sound illegal or suspicious to me. Rupp could rub in his own androgel without Alberto's help, right?

Put yourself in the shoes of the accused. Would you want to be on trial based on the "evidence" we have so far? Would it meet the threshold of evidence for indictment in your ordinary crime drama movie or tv show?

I'm not arguing NOP is innocent. I'm just saying that we seen have no damning evidence so far. No eyewitess accounts, no positive tests, no cover-up of positive tests, no testimony under oath.

The problem I see with this defense of the NOP (i.e. if I don't see any "hard" evidence, then they should be presumed innocent), is that it could be quite simple to dope someone and never leave any "smoking gun" type of evidence. For example, if Salazar was giving testosterone to only Rupp, all he'd have to do is a) make sure they never talk about it openly, b) always administer the T in private, and c) never give a dose strong enough to trigger a positive test. That really shouldn't be that hard to do. There is no reason you couldn't keep that routine up for years without anybody seeing the deal go down. So I think you might be setting the bar too high in your demands for evidence. The realities of modern doping are that you are more likely to make busts using masses of circumstantial evidence than you are through eyewitness accounts and positive tests.

Furthermore, Salazar currently is not being tried for anything in an actual court. For many of us, we just want to know if he's cheating or not. It's sort of like, let's say maybe you think your wife is cheating on you. Several of your friends say they have seen her going into a hotel with some young stud. She's been acting secretive, deleting her phone records, acting un-passionate towards you, and various other things that seem suspicious. At some point you would have gathered enough evidence to be satisfied that she is in fact cheating on you, despite never witnessing the act, and without necessarily being able to prove it to the satisfaction of the judicial system. And for many (myself included), sure, I'd like to see more evidence come forth and the whole truth be made public, but I've already seen enough to be convinced that Salazar is a cheat, and should be banned from coaching.

Kupczak said the bond between Salazar and Rupp was so close Salazar would sometimes take over the massage duties from him when they were at training camps. “Sometimes we’d be somewhere and Galen likes his massages in the evening, so I would start to work on him and Alberto would say: ‘Al, you take the night off, I’ll give Galen a massage.’

“At first I was a little taken aback. I was thinking am I doing a good job? But then I realised they have a peculiar arrangement, it’s beyond son and father, like some people say, so I’d just laugh it off and think I’ve got the night off, good.”

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/23/alberto-salazar-claims-steroid-gel-massage-therapist

Editor's note: We changed the title of this thread. Initially it was entitled, "Creepy Revelations From The Guardian Regarding Salazar/Rupp Relationship

Please note. We've changed the title of this thread as it had one too many pedophilia connotations.

Here is a 2nd article with quotes from Allan Kupczak:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3136349/Alberto-Salazar-Mo-Farah-s-coach-faces-fresh-allegations-former-massage-therapist-claims-testosterone-gel.html

"‘The AndroGel was so prevalent. I saw it, for sure. It was almost as if it was hidden in plain sight."