Lauren Fleshman speaks out- "I definitely do think that's an ethical violation."

You don't speak for me wrote:

gaglrs wrote:

I think Lauren is being very honest, but I also feel Lauren is a publicity freak and couldn't stand being left out of the current and hot running news. She makes me a sick to my stomach over her constant need for publicity and attention. Message to Lauren, keep your trap shut more often and your face out of media for a little while and people might actually want to hear what you have to say a little more.

I'm the opposite, I find what she has to say very interesting.

I don't have any doubt that NOPe is cheating to the core. I don't have any doubt that Fleshman cheated as long as it suited her purpose. She stayed with nike even after she knew about the cheating, and she never had the ethical sense to return the filthy money that she got from nike.

Lauren has a desperate and pathetic need for attention. Her sense of self-worth is inflated beyond sanity. This chick self references her own "badassery". A person with humility just doesn't think that way.

She has an ego wrote:

Lauren has a desperate and pathetic need for attention. Her sense of self-worth is inflated beyond sanity. This chick self references her own "badassery". A person with humility just doesn't think that way.

______________________

You hear that, ladies? Keep it modest. Even if you're one of the best athletes in recent US history, you might at one point have a bad race, get older, or sometimes be unattractive to some men. Humility, please. Keep your lady opinions to yourselves!

Very convenient that we all get to draw our own line of how far is too far.

Apparently, seeking out a possibly unethical coach to bring you to a shady doctor is okay. Then take some of the medicine, but not as much as Rupp...he is probably much closer to the line. maybe even over.

Of course altitute tents are okay. Nothing foreign is even going in your body in that case!

You can even provide a vaulable service to others by finally speaking up about potential shadiness...eventually...okay...TEN YEARS LATER.

Fleshman raises some good points and interesting insight into the specific case of thyroid medicine, but I am not totally convinced that "mindset" she describes is unethical.

Sometimes your body cannot take the training and you get medical help to enable your body to take the training and it is not cheating. If I get a stress fracture, should I just rest more and back off training, or should I get in an orthopedic boot and take meds?

If my feet get blisters when I train barefoot, should I just take it easy, or should I buy shoes to enable me to run more mileage without getting blisters?

The thing is, we have Fleshman's "unethical" mindset about a ton of things, but for some reason the line is crossed when it is about thyroid function?

Sesamoiditis wrote:

Is taking caffeine before a race for the sole purpose of performance enhancing any different than what Salazar is doing?

Yes, it most certainly is. Read up on everything pal.

gobias industries wrote:

Sesamoiditis wrote:

Is taking caffeine before a race for the sole purpose of performance enhancing any different than what Salazar is doing?

Yes, it most certainly is. Read up on everything pal.

I meant to say in this specific article with regards to Fleshman's expiriences. Neither are illegal but could both go against the "ethics" of the sport.

The bends wrote:

Ever heard about the bends? The symptoms are occur with altitude changes.

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/dcs.pdfhttp://www.avweb.com/news/aeromed/181939-1.htmlhttp://www.emedicinehealth.com/decompression_syndromes_the_bends/article_em.htm

The bends, you obviously know nothing about how altitude tents/rooms work. The altitude "generator" just strips off oxygen from input air so its output has a lower percentage of oxygen molecules comparable to the oxygen molecule content of air at higher altitudes, which is at less pressure. The generator does not change the air pressure where it is being used, it just reduces the oxygen percentage.

As a post-collegiate weekend warrior who can afford a toy like this, I can tell you that it definitely is more fatiguing to sleep in an altitude tent. Your resting heart rate and respiration rate will constantly be higher for weeks while your body works harder to get oxygen.

Tenderness is the future - performance enhancing hugs.

broke my ankle wrote:

Fleshman raises some good points and interesting insight into the specific case of thyroid medicine, but I am not totally convinced that "mindset" she describes is unethical.

Sometimes your body cannot take the training and you get medical help to enable your body to take the training and it is not cheating. If I get a stress fracture, should I just rest more and back off training, or should I get in an orthopedic boot and take meds?

If my feet get blisters when I train barefoot, should I just take it easy, or should I buy shoes to enable me to run more mileage without getting blisters?

The thing is, we have Fleshman's "unethical" mindset about a ton of things, but for some reason the line is crossed when it is about thyroid function?

You aren't the only one saying this, it's pretty much the basis of the gray area debate. Opinions are widespread and change depending on the circumstances.

Most go by the general rule that if something in training makes you unhealthy then it's ok to seek medical treatment to get you back to normal. Then you have to ask; What is normal? What is unhealthy? Was Lauren's "exercise induced asthma" really unhealthy enough to seek medical treatment? I don't know, possibly, but it certainly didn't warrant taking the maximum dose as she says herself. Each circumstance is unique and it's tough to draw a clear line, even for the most ardent purists.

Not real altitude training in other words. Faking it.

yuppie tent user wrote:

As a post-collegiate weekend warrior who can afford a toy like this, I can tell you that it definitely is more fatiguing to sleep in an altitude tent. Your resting heart rate and respiration rate will constantly be higher for weeks while your body works harder to get oxygen.

Reberathing wrote:

Not real altitude training in other words. Faking it.

yuppie tent user wrote:

As a post-collegiate weekend warrior who can afford a toy like this, I can tell you that it definitely is more fatiguing to sleep in an altitude tent. Your resting heart rate and respiration rate will constantly be higher for weeks while your body works harder to get oxygen.

Correct. The generator partially simulates altitude conditions. It does not duplicate them. Some studies have shown that using a tent is slightly less effective at stimulating RBC production and related physical effects than actual altitude training. It is a good but not perfect alternative for those of us who have things like jobs and families that prevent us from moving to an altitude training location.

This whole thing is sickening.

Yes, there's an ethical line in the sand that's been crossed, but that line has been violated through the abuse of prescription drugs, which is potentially dangerous. Drugs have side effects, and therefore they are prescribed by a medical professional that gives a specific dose based solely on what's needed to treat a patient's particular medical condition.

To manipulate and increase the frequency/amount of a specific dosage is to risk damaging a person's health, and for a person in a responsible and influential position e.g. a professional sports coach, to encourage the misuse of a drug is completely unacceptable.

Some people like Lauren Fleshman might have the strength of character and thought to give themselves a reality check, and refuse to go down the wrong path. However, others might not be able to say no, especially under the influence of a strong willed, powerful, respected and influential person who they might have already invested their faith and hopes in.

Also, if this situation and the current rules aren't assessed and changed, I would imagine that a culture of doping by abusing TUE's could become a part of athletics, if there isn't so already, which sadly reminds me of the whole doping saga in cycling.

Could we not say in a ethical mindset that Fleshman duped her sponsors post Nike departure that she was an elite getting back into form to be or is one of the US top distance females is an absolute lie. Her ethical code clearly doesn't apply to her premise of gaining sponsorship.

Gaining an edge as NOP does or any elite athletic team will always fall under the guise of un-ethical athletic advantage or not. Breaking the law is clearly defined and as this story roles on it appears factually we are in ethics discussion.

Sesamoiditis wrote:

gobias industries wrote:

Yes, it most certainly is. Read up on everything pal.

I meant to say in this specific article with regards to Fleshman's expiriences. Neither are illegal but could both go against the "ethics" of the sport.

Yes, there are profound differences.

Ethical mindset wrote:

Could we not say in a ethical mindset that Fleshman duped her sponsors post Nike departure that she was an elite getting back into form to be or is one of the US top distance females is an absolute lie. Her ethical code clearly doesn't apply to her premise of gaining sponsorship.

Gaining an edge as NOP does or any elite athletic team will always fall under the guise of un-ethical athletic advantage or not. Breaking the law is clearly defined and as this story roles on it appears factually we are in ethics discussion.

Poor, poor analogy.

This just keeps getting more and more amazing. I can't even take the dog to the freaking vet without missing something big. Now I know what it was like way back in the day to to read one of those thrillers that came out installment by installment in the newspapersI think I have two thoughts.1) Super hard training is supposed to have consequences to the body but the NOPe pharmacy machine basically gets around that.That thought is summarized perfectly by the poster.

I've always basically agreed with the above sentiment. There is a reason why so many elite athletes benefit from thyorid stuff - too much hard training destroys your body. It's a natural byproduct of training.

It looks like the NOP avoids that as a result of prescription drugs (and maybe worse).

I had a kid at Cornell who was a monster talent but just always felt lethargic. The docs in Ithaca woudln't give him IV iron. He didn't have time to drive 3 hours home to ge it from his home doctor. So he just sucked. I remember thinking and saying to him, "If I was Alberto and had his resources, you'd be amazing as you'd go see Dr. Brown and feel amazing every single day."

Now this kid had real medical issues that needed help. But you shouldn't feel amazing each and every single day. Tha'ts not the way the body works. The feel great every day is the dream season you have, but it's not something that happens month after month, year after year. It's the year Andy Wheating ran 3:30. But he can't recreate that year after year.

On two my second thought.

2) Vin Lannana comes across as a hero here.

We at LetsRun.com have had our disagreements over the years with Lananna but if that old saying of "crisis illuminates true character", then bravo to Vinny.

Imagine how hard it must be to see your star athletes not have huge international success (whether its Wheating or Fleshman) and know that a rival's are due to pharmacy and have the guts to tell your star not to do it.

Bravo Vinny!!

Humility prevents me from pointing out that I said the same a good 3/4 of a page before rojo.

rojo wrote:

2) Vin Lannana comes across as a hero here.

We at LetsRun.com have had our disagreements over the years with Lananna but if that old saying of "crisis illuminates true character", then bravo to Vinny.

[quote]Vin Lananna said:

"Ya know, you could do that, and if you want to do that, it's your career, and I don't think there's necessarily anything illegal about it, but the reason why your thyroid is as messed up as it is because you're not resting enough, you're sleeping in an altitude tent, and you're training too hard. And you have to back off, you have to change those things, you have to take responsibility."

.

sanchobaile wrote:

I think Fleshman has turned into more of a running model than a runner, so I have gotten more skeptical of her and the message she puts out there, but this seemed genuine to me.

Are you saying that you mentally downgraded Fleshman's credibility when she transitioned from an elite runner to an elite runner doubling as a fashion model? Does it appear to you people who work as models in any capacity automatically check their integrity at the door wherever the go? Seems a little unfair to me. It's not like she's become a press agent for a member of U.S. Congress.

But since we're on the subject, picture this: A world-class distance runner widely acknowledged by his peers to use PEDs goes on to a career coaching world-class distance runners, a number of whom later accuse him of shady pharmaceutical practices and independently provide no small amount of support for their claims.

What sort of credibility would you assign this (purely hypothetical) person's protests of innocence?

Totally agree... I was a 2:20 marathoner back in the day... I used to run a hilly 10mile trail run to test my fitness - best training time = 65 mins. After a week or two of Flovent and Prednisone to treat my asthma, I was able to run this course in under 55mins. Literally, I could not run fast enough to tax my system.