Why did Magness wait 3+ years to go public with the Rupp "testosterone medication" photo?

Wrong doing wrote:

Armstrong was past the statute of limits. But, the statute doesn't apply when there is wrong doing.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. The statute of limitation only applies when there is wrong doing! For example, suppose the statute of limitations for the USADA is five years. That would mean USADA could not bring charges based on this document, which was from 2002. Charges based on this document could only be brought until 2007. After that, no charges could be filed. Ever!

PS There are some circumstances where they could use the document. Those are not relevant in this case.

Les wrote:

The Balco scandal unfolded in similar fashion with a news article that led to an investigation that led to the purveyor of the PEDs, Victor Conte, confessing everything. That led to suspensions. Magness is just an observer, though, he's no Victor Conte on the inside, so yeah, it appears his observations are not enough -- there's the smell of smoke, but no smoking gun.

Nicely put! I agree that we need to be patient, and remember that these investigations take a while to come to a conclusion. But I do think such sensible advice is going to be a hard sell here on LRC. Patience is not our strong point.

Whoever I am, I am wrote:

Wrong doing wrote:

Armstrong was past the statute of limits. But, the statute doesn't apply when there is wrong doing.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. The statute of limitation only applies when there is wrong doing! For example, suppose the statute of limitations for the USADA is five years. That would mean USADA could not bring charges based on this document, which was from 2002. Charges based on this document could only be brought until 2007. After that, no charges could be filed. Ever!

PS There are some circumstances where they could use the document. Those are not relevant in this case.

I don't think anyone is saying USADA could or should bring charges based on the photo. What I'd like to know [but think I'm going to find out] is exactly what information they've received from Magness and others, what investigating they've done subsequent to receiving that information, and what further information their investigation has produced.

A sensible perspective on a website where about all sensible posters have long ago been put off, repelled, chased away... Ergo there are no true Salazar supporters here anymore, haven't been for more than half a decade.

dkny64 wrote:

What I'd like to know [but think I'm going to find out] is exactly what information they've received from Magness and others, what investigating they've done subsequent to receiving that information, and what further information their investigation has produced.

Me, too. But of course, there are good reasons we'll never know unless the investigation leads to charges. Most obvious is privacy. From what I saw during the Lance affair, USADA has its share of clowns. If I was being investigated, I wouldn't want them releasing everything they'd found out about me. And since I think what's good for me is good for Alberto, I'd prefer they keep his information private, too. At the same time, releasing information about an investigation can slow down the investigation in a variety of ways.

As others (maybe even you) have said, that they've had the info for a while and haven't filed charges leads me to think they don't have enough yet to prove their case. I assume they have been testing Galen so much recently because they have enough information to suspect him, but not enough to convict him.

I'm not convinced it's appropriate to ever go public with the photo -- surely not before or during any doping investigation. In the small chance it's really "Testo Boost", Rupp's reputation would be irreparably damaged.He should share the concern with USADA, and let them deal with it.

dkny64 wrote:

Why did Magness wait 3+ years to go public with the Rupp "testosterone medication" photo? If he's given an explanation, can someone summarize it for me? If not, any conjecture about why not?

If Nike goes after Magness in a law suit, do you think the Univ. of Houston will back him up and/or provide any funding/support? Nike could financially destroy him. The whistleblower provisions do not protect you financially. Just heard a story on NPR about a poor whisteblower that has been ravaged by his former employer for turning them in.

Leirbag wrote:

If Nike goes after Magness in a law suit, do you think the Univ. of Houston will back him up and/or provide any funding/support? Nike could financially destroy him. The whistleblower provisions do not protect you financially. Just heard a story on NPR about a poor whisteblower that has been ravaged by his former employer for turning them in.

I think if Nike went after Magness, the letsrun community would have his back. How many of us would be willing to contribute through a vehicle like gofundme for his legal defense? I know I would and I am sure many others would.

I spoke to Magness in the summer of 2012 - before the Olympics. I don't remember who called who. It was very clear to me he was fearful of his career being ruined.

Going to WADA - and not the press - was a better option. If he goes to the press without backup from the Goucher's hes ripped to shreds like Lance Armstrong ripped Betsy Andreu.

Does anyone remember a few years ago when Magness was interviewed by someone and he said he knew there were a lot of top clean athletes out htere but he didn't mentione rupp. Or it was something where Magness left out reference to the NOP, i heard that Nike called up the University of Houston about that. Now I didn't hear that from Magness - it was more a rumor at a meet.

But the answer to the OP's questions is simple.

1) He didn't wait 3 years to get the info out - he went to WADA.

2) He waited 3 years to go public as he didn't want to be the only out there as his career could be ruined and he'd be rippedl like Betsy ANdreu.

THere are lots of forrmer NOP members stilll not coming out on camera. It wouldn't surprise me if many of them are fearful. There are LOTS of cowards in this sport. Nike is like the King of England back in the day. Even if you aren't his direct subject, you'd better be careful what you do.

Let's suppose you are AYB - Amy Yoder begley. Let's say you know of doping use. Let's say you were doped. If you come out with that right now, you might be fired from your coaching job. Personally if she did that, I think she should be praised as a hero.

Devil Dog wrote:

Perhaps because it took that long to create a document that when flashed in a documentary for a few seconds might appear to be legit by the masses.

Not true. Salazar has never questioned the authenticity of the dcoument. I found it interesting he didn't try to claim it was just made up. But Salazar has basically admitted the document is true but saying that when it says "testosterone" it really means "testoboost". So it was mislabelled.

Rarityy wrote:

A sensible perspective on a website where about all sensible posters have long ago been put off, repelled, chased away... Ergo there are no true Salazar supporters here anymore, haven't been for more than half a decade.

Your implication that it is sensible to be a Salazar supporter is laughable. Whether or not he is guilty aside, he is undoubtedly a scumbag.

I support Alberto Salazar, so I don't understand why you would speak in generalities.

Thanks for the additional details, Robert. I think it would be great if you reached out to Magness now to discuss exactly what information he shared with USADA and how they followed up with him after he initially contacted them.

On a related topic: the Epstein article mentions that the Gouchers have reached out to USADA and that several other athletes have as well. Have you heard anything to indicate that USADA has done any proactive outreach of its own?

After I started this thread, I re-read the Epstein article carefully and established this basic chronology:

2/2011: Magness and Rupp go to Dusseldorf and Magness is troubled by several events [the urine going to the Mayo clinic for testing, the mystery pills in the hollowed out book, etc.]

3/2011: Magness sees the "testosterone medication" page in Rupp's medical file, photographs it, talks to his parents about what to do and confronts Salazar.

next 15 months: Magness continues to work for Salazar but becomes "less dedicated".

6/2012: Magness and Salazar agree to part ways.

8/2012: Magness decides to go to USADA after watching the Olympic 10000m race.

3/2013: the Gouchers go to USADA with their concerns about Salazar.

I'm not out to criticize Magness, I can 100% understand why he wasn't ready to immediately quit his job in March 2011 when he took the photo, and I can see why he thought going to USADA was better than going public in August 2012. What I'm frustrated about is that quite a number of high-profile athletes have joined NOP since March 2011, and they might have made a different decision if they had seen that photo. [Nothing else in the article really changes my personal view of Salazar. I'm sorry to say that the article did succeed in making me less of a Kara Goucher fan.]

A final question: What did Ricky Simms know and when did he know it?

"Thanks for the additional details, Robert. I think it would be great if you reached out to Magness now to discuss exactly what information he shared with USADA and how they followed up with him after he initially contacted them."

Magness should not share all the information he shared with USADA until the USADA has a chance to complete their investigation. There is a possibility that the USADA is looking the other way. Pressure needs to build on Travis T Tygart of the USADA to get off of his post-I-got-Lance podium and work hard on the NOP situation.

Go Afrikaaaaa wrote:

I don't think the Jew Epstein cares about the truth, but about selling his story and making money. Did he ever go after any athlete of his tribe?

How low will NOP supporters go?

Magness has no obligation, moral or otherwise, to provide any information to the whole world for other runners to evaluate before choosing a program to be a part of. Each athlete has the ability themselves to be clean, even if part of a dirty program. Magness doesn't have to put his neck out there so that all runners are aware of further rumors about an always-rumored program.

u right

Can't share it all wrote:

"Thanks for the additional details, Robert. I think it would be great if you reached out to Magness now to discuss exactly what information he shared with USADA and how they followed up with him after he initially contacted them."

Magness should not share all the information he shared with USADA until the USADA has a chance to complete their investigation. There is a possibility that the USADA is looking the other way. Pressure needs to build on Travis T Tygart of the USADA to get off of his post-I-got-Lance podium and work hard on the NOP situation.

It's been three years and there's no clear indication that USADA has done anything more than politely listen to people who come to them and increase the frequency with which they test Rupp. I can't see any way in which more information being publicly available could slow their investigation, and I could imagine athletes on the fence about going to USADA feeling more confident about doing so now that they know about Magness and the Gouchers.

stryker drilling wrote:

Magness has no obligation, moral or otherwise, to provide any information to the whole world for other runners to evaluate before choosing a program to be a part of. Each athlete has the ability themselves to be clean, even if part of a dirty program. Magness doesn't have to put his neck out there so that all runners are aware of further rumors about an always-rumored program.

I 100% agree that Magness had no obligation to make his photo public. But I also think that photo + Salazar's acknowledgement that it's legit is a qualitatively different type of information than was available to athletes deciding about joining NOP from the time Magness took the photo in March 2011 to the time the Epstein article was published in June 2015.

For me, personally, it crosses a line that Salazar at best was giving 16-year-old Galen Rupp Testoboost, and at worst was giving him some form of banned testosterone product.