What has the world come to? ESPN to honor Caitlyn Jenner with the Arthur Ashes courage award.

I was wrong. There can be useful dialogue on this issue. And frankly, it's totally new to me, and I've learned a lot.

Another weird thing to me is that people in this country are so proud and defensive about our freedoms. But, if someone chooses to change genders, people withdraw all that freedom support and want you to conform to the norm.

UsedToBeKnowItAll wrote:

I was wrong. There can be useful dialogue on this issue. And frankly, it's totally new to me, and I've learned a lot.

Another weird thing to me is that people in this country are so proud and defensive about our freedoms. But, if someone chooses to change genders, people withdraw all that freedom support and want you to conform to the norm.

We just don't want to be forced to accept something we find repulsive. It's called freedom of conscience. LGBT are Nazis when faced with opposing opinions, and try to shut every counter argument down as hate speech. I find Jenner fvcked up, sure, but I also recognize he has the right to do that kind of thing.

"Forced to accept?" What does that even mean? No one is making you get a sex change. No one cares if you find it repulsive. So recognize trans rights and otherwise STFU because it really doesn't affect you and is none of your business. No one is forcing you to pay attention to the issue or watch Caitlyn Jenner's stupid show.

Macd wrote:

i agree wrote:

I respect the people who have these urges but DON'T act on them.

To live a normal life, not put your kids through hell.

It's all about Bruce.

Lol. All so ignorant. You respect that they don't feel comfortable in their body? You respect that the suicide rate in this community is disproportionally high? DONT act on those feelings though... Just keep trucking? You kidding me?

Also, Caitlyn is getting old. How much longer would you want her to wait? It was pretty much now or never.

Her kids are old enough to understand this. Shit, Kim was in a sex tape and everyone in that family poses in nude photos from time to time.

What a joke.

Jewish evolution! Typical American Kosher family.

Troof wrote:

"Forced to accept?" What does that even mean? No one is making you get a sex change. No one cares if you find it repulsive. So recognize trans rights and otherwise STFU because it really doesn't affect you and is none of your business. No one is forcing you to pay attention to the issue or watch Caitlyn Jenner's stupid show.

You don't know how you are going to be forced to accept this? Lol I'm not telling you, I can't wait til it occurs.

Christians do this too. It is human nature to defend something you feel strongly about. No one is asking you to accept gays and transgendered people, just don't make legislation to discriminate against them. When you say things that are hateful towards groups of people it IS hate speech. You just don't want to admit it.

Nahhhhhhh wrote:

UsedToBeKnowItAll wrote:

I was wrong. There can be useful dialogue on this issue. And frankly, it's totally new to me, and I've learned a lot.

Another weird thing to me is that people in this country are so proud and defensive about our freedoms. But, if someone chooses to change genders, people withdraw all that freedom support and want you to conform to the norm.

We just don't want to be forced to accept something we find repulsive. It's called freedom of conscience. LGBT are Nazis when faced with opposing opinions, and try to shut every counter argument down as hate speech. I find Jenner fvcked up, sure, but I also recognize he has the right to do that kind of thing.

How is it that a guy who gets to live his life the way he CHOOSES in a society that for the most part accepts him (or at least does not ridicule him to his face), while also making millions of dollars for doing this get the award over a 19 year old girl that was faced with her own mortality and chose to live it to the fullest living her dream playing a collegiate basketball game despite facing her inanimate death or Jim Kelley who has had nothing but trials his entire life. They did not choose the hand they were dealt and still lived life inspiring others.

Seems to me ESPN did this to jump on the media ban wagon and get people to watch (or talk about) the useless and in my opinion failing ESPYs and in doing so made themselves look foolish.

Troof wrote:

"Forced to accept?" What does that even mean? No one is making you get a sex change. No one cares if you find it repulsive. So recognize trans rights and otherwise STFU because it really doesn't affect you and is none of your business. No one is forcing you to pay attention to the issue or watch Caitlyn Jenner's stupid show.

"forced to accept" is typically code for someone who is turned on by something they are ashamed of and want to blame someone.

C'mon dude embrace the phreak...just don't hurt anyone in the process.

Ripping on Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is really silly.

There is no doubt that he has always felt this way, so he's not doing this for publicity. The fact that he WILL make money off this is immaterial. If you suddenly had fame (Jenner's fame came and went and came again) and you would make a lot of money doing something you really WANTED to do anyway, wouldn't you do it? Hell, I'm one of the least greedy people I know, and I would do that. "Flagpole is about to retire...let's give him several million dollars to tape a show of his life." Depending on how intrusive, I would consider that.

And people should quit being surprised that this is a story.

1) It's titillating. Not something that personally gets me all worked up, but a famous man wanting to wear a dress is interesting to a lot of people.

2) Brings in men and women. Women know him because of the Keeping Up with the Kardashians nonsense. Men know him because he's a dude who wants to wear a dress...for it or against it, men remember that.

3) Young and old are interested. People over about age 45 know him from his 1976 Gold Medal performance days. Younger people know him from the Keeping Up with the Kardashians nonsense. A rare find to hit that huge of a demographic.

4) If he were a formerly feminine girly man (like many male figure skaters), this wouldn't be as big a deal, but he was an Olympic Champion in the freakin' Decathlon...a good-looking muscular guy with a very masculine name...BRUCE.

5) Definitely a hot-button issue with views on the extreme on both sides...one side says he's a hero and can't heap enough praise on him while the other side has some hate, some phobia, some ignorance, some just plain weirded out. Not too many middle of the road people here (though I would be one).

I'm actually surprised we aren't seeing even MORE of her...commercials, every news program all the time, etc. Media perfect storm for Jenner.

Well, I'm jumping into this conversation a bit late and I'm not sure if anyone is going to bother reading this, but at least attempt to share some insight on transsexuality.

1. For those of you up in arms about the "PC left", there is nothing politically correct about transsexualism. In fact, transsexuality reinforces what pretty much everyone over the age of 4 already knows: that boys and girls/men and women are in fact different. Yes, there are societal influences and there is a spectrum of gender variation, but the human brain is in fact sexually differentiated. In other words, the brains of women and men are different and these structural differences show up on brain scans. This does not mean that one sex is superior to the other or even that these differences are dramatic. However, it does mean that gender is to a large degree hardwired into our brains from birth.

2. While I do not consider transsexualism to be a mental illness in any way shape or form, I do consider it to be a birth defect. If anyone bothered to watch Jenner's interview, the psychiatrists interviewed (who have done extensive research on transsexualism in addition to holding medical degrees--you know, unlike most LRC posters) stated that transsexualism is believed to be caused by misfiring if hormones in utero. Scientists who have studied in womb sex development believe that in the case of transsexuals hormonal stress causes either too much testosterone to be produced (thus masculinizing the brains of female to male transsexuals or too little testosterone is produced leaving the baby's brain in its female state. A birth defect, like mental retardation, autism or aspergers syndrome which all affect the brain are fairly easy to detect and no one debates that these individuals have certain things wrong with them, but in the case of transsexuals since most of them are otherwise fully mentally competent and appear to be normal, people just think that they are perverts etc. In realty, their minds simply developed in utero to be the opposite gender of their physical sex. There are all types of birth defects in human nature, and transsexuality is one of them.

3. Physically, the only real differences between men and women are the versions of sexual and reproductive organs that we have, which at the onset of puberty, produce varying levels of testosterone and estrogen. Otherwise, we are essentially physically the same. For the most part all human beings regardless of sex, have two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears, walk upright, and have the same internal organs etc. etc. Changing one's sex is actually relatively simple.

4. If the mind is the self, and a human is born with a female patterned brain, identifies as such from a young age, and feels uncomfortable in a male body, then that person is a woman, plain and simple. Can you imagine your typical girl going through male puberty and growing a beard, body hair, a deep voice etc? Or your typical boy growing hips breasts a high pitched voice and feminine facial features? That's the hell that transsexuals are trapped in and it is a hell that is so horrifyingly awful that people risk not only losing their family and friends but their jobs, the possibility of never passing etc in order to transition and attempt to live a somewhat normal life. People don't transition for kicks ad giggles or media attention. They transition because their only other option is suicide.

5. For those complaining about Jenner being a media whore and what not, did she honestly have a choice? Give me a break, the paparazzi was following her around and her gender transition was in the tabloids for over a year before she gave the interview. She had already been thrust in the spotlight, she might as well tell her story in her own words and make some money off of it at the same time.