Some people would actually take Michael Jordan over Lebron James?

BenSi wrote:

It may have been competitive, but athletes today are so much bigger, stronger, & faster than the players during Jordan's time.

Jordan simply didn't have to deal with the athleticism of today's studs. For those of us watching the game, we see there are freaks like Blake Griffin & Anthony Davis who are basically 6'10 freaking point guards! Players that size couldn't dribble & move in Jordan's era. Not even close. Could you imagine the damage that Blake Griffin would have done back then? Also, point guards today are also on another level. Meanwhile you have Lebron effectively guarding positions 1-4 & stopping these freaks.

Did you really just use "Blake Griffin" and "point guard" in the same sentence? Do you even watch the game?

Blake Griffin is a stiff. He is also a pussy when the pressure is on. He can jump - I give you that.

Seriously bro - go watch the game before you post any more garbage.

ogoi wrote:

Regarding the supporting cast argument, have Irving and Love even played that much during the playoffs? How much did Pippen and Rodman play in the playoffs comparatively?

Ummm...Two words -- Atlanta Hawks

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

BenSi wrote:

More history being made by Lebron.

LeBron - five straight Finals.

Jordan never did that.

Magic never did that.

Bird never did that.

Those of us who actually watch the game are witnessing this. Jordan fans are stuck in the past.

Making the Finals five straight times out of the East, as piss poor as it has been during that time, is about as impressive as winning your kindergarten intramural trash in the can toss challenge.

Cavs just swept the team with the 2nd best record in basketball. You can only defeat the teams you're scheduled against.

History is being made by LeBron at this moment. Sit back & enjoy it.

runningart2004 wrote:

BenSi wrote:

More history being made by Lebron.

LeBron - five straight Finals.

Jordan never did that.

Magic never did that.

Bird never did that.

Those of us who actually watch the game are witnessing this. Jordan fans are stuck in the past.

MJ would have won 8 in a row if he hadn't taken time off to hit balls with sticks.

He was a better offensive player than Lebron and a better defensive player and a better free throw shooter.

Alan

We'll never know what would have happened if Jordan stayed. Bulls may have missed the playoffs each year for all we know. What we do know is what 'records matter' pointed out above & that the Heat & Cavs records took a huge hit as soon as LeBron left. After Jordan left the Bulls, they lost 2 more games compared to when he played with them.

Well, Have You? wrote:

Did you really just use "Blake Griffin" and "point guard" in the same sentence? Do you even watch the game?

Blake Griffin is a stiff. He is also a pussy when the pressure is on. He can jump - I give you that.

Seriously bro - go watch the game before you post any more garbage.

Relax. It was an exaggeration to emphasize how well he can move & dribble compared to the bigs in Jordan's era. Get it now?

I'm tired of reading all this crap about today's athletes being bigger and stronger and faster. This year's MVP is not the typical great athlete and he makes others look like JV players. And there is still a place for 38 year old relics like Tim Duncan.

time will tell if Lebron becomes the greater player but it's close. this Bird and Magic fan is starting to appreciate the King.

Coach wrote:

I'm tired of reading all this crap about today's athletes being bigger and stronger and faster. This year's MVP is not the typical great athlete and he makes others look like JV players. And there is still a place for 38 year old relics like Tim Duncan.

time will tell if Lebron becomes the greater player but it's close. this Bird and Magic fan is starting to appreciate the King.

Your sentences don't make sense. What do today's bigger stronger faster athletes have to do with how athletic the MVP is? One guy erases the trend among hundreds???

What does being 38 have to do with it? If you can play, you can play. Look at Lagat. Today's runners are objectively better than they were 20-30 years ago, but Lagat still beats all of them at the age 40. The two ideas can coexist.

badboys wrote:

Would have loved to see what the Pistons would of done to Lebron in late 80s

Not much. Laimbeer told Patrick the same game plan wouldn't slow LeBron."You can't knock him down," Laimbeer said. "He'll knock you down. No one's ever seen a physical specimen like LeBron. 6-foot-8, 285 [pounds], strong, jumps out of the gym, runs like the wind. Man, I'm in awe of this guy."

Along with Pippen, add Bill Laimbeer to the list of those who think LeBron is better than Jordan.

"There’s no question I would take LeBron James," Laimbeer said. "He can do more. Michael Jordan could score and make big shots and look spectacular at times with wild-flying dunks, but LeBron can get you 18 rebounds. LeBron can get you 15 assists if he chooses to, or he can score 50 if he wanted to."

but what about the #ringz argument? If the Warriors vanquish the Cavaliers in the NBA Finals, James' Finals record will fall to 2-4.

"Yeah, but you look at what LeBron has in the Finals right now," Laimbeer argued. "Anybody else in this league … could they have led the team that he has around him right now to the Finals? I don’t think so. Jordan couldn't have led this team to the Finals.

although we marvel at athleticism, skill wins games. The great players of 30 years ago would still dominate today. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kareem would be all stars. Curry is a 6'3' Larry Bird which makes me appreciate the supposedly slow unathletic Bird even more. And last year's MVP is not a physical specimen either. He might be tall but he is weak. In response to an earlier comment about how much bigger, faster and stronger athletes are today I say bull sht. Roy Hibbert couldn't even do a push up when he came into the league and I'm sure he's not the only one. Jabbar would toy with these centers. And if athleticism is so important then there wouldn't be a place for 40 year olds in the NBA. There have been many. You don't see 40 year old football players and soccer players.

Jordan and Lebron are both athletic freaks. Who's better at this point probably Jordan but the gap has narrowed. I wouldn't be surprised to answer Lebron in 5 years.

Late 80's Cavs were a much better team than the current Cavs. Up front you had Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance and Hot Rod Williams; one of the best front courts of all time. Mark Price at point with Ron Harper or Craig Ehlo at shooting guard. That team competed in a very competitive Eastern Conference at the time. Bulls, Pistons, 76ers, Celtics, Bucks much tougher than today's Easter Conference. That Cavs team was fun to watch. This Cavs team not so much, but they do have Lebron. Hope Cavs win for the fans. Will be epic story of redemption for Lebron. Jordan still better....:)

I even included a woman with all her teeth.

We are aiming for diversity.

lol. I would bet I'm the only one on this board who knows what you are referring to without looking it up.

runningart2004 wrote:

Jordan led the league in scoring a record 10 times. He is rhe last player to avg more than 30 in a season. He was also defensive player of the year. So he's been the best offensive player and best defensive player in the league. At times Wade was better than Lebron.

Dan dakich is the only man who could hold Jordan under 10! Lol

Alan

runningart2004 wrote:

MJ would have won 8 in a row if he hadn't taken time off to hit balls with sticks.

You mean, Jordan's team or old team may have. And against what competition??? Jordan depended greatly on his team to pick him up. LeBron completely carries his team. LeBron > Jordan

Jordan didn't make the Finals himself until the Pistons were past their prime. After that, he squeaked past teams that couldn't shoot — the Knicks — or didn't have players who could create their own shot — the Pacers.

The best team he ever faced in the Finals — the Suns — couldn't defend. Kevin Johnson? Danny Ainge? Charles Barkley? Dan Majerle?

Please. LeBron had to play the Spurs three times, an outfit with a top-five coach, the best power forward ever, an All-Start point guard, a nasty, soul-stealing shooting guard, and role players that defended and shot like crazy.

5-for-19 … and five.

Those are Jordan's shooting numbers and turnovers in the final game of the 1996 season, when his Bulls clinched the title against Seattle. His teammates picked him up that night, as they often did on nights when he couldn't take over a game, which wasn't as infrequent as you think, at least not in the playoffs.

Questioning Jordan's offensive ability is ludicrous and down right insane. He has the record for longest streak scoring in double digits. Again...Dan Dakich is a defensive mastermind! MJs nightmares are in Cream and Crimson.

1. The fact that a basically brand new team, in the Cavs, can walk through the Eastern Conference Playoffs shows you how weak that conference is. Really? The Hawks? The last time the Hawks were relevant Dominique was getting his windmill pwnd by who? MJ!

2. Wade was the most important player on the Heat. Lebrick didn't carry anything but Wade's lunch. He left a crappy Cavs team because he couldn't get it done. MJ stayed in Chitown through the bad years until a team was built around him.

3. The rules have changed so that defense doesn't matter anymore (Hello Dirk!). You still had to dribble the ball in the 90s...although it was getting iffy.

4. Check the names in Jordan's era...Magic, Bird, Ewing, Olajawun, Barkley, Miller, Thomas, Malone, Stockton, Drexler,...Mutumbo!...just kidding...though MJs blind free throw to mock that 8 foot pencil was classic.

I will say that Lebron is a perfect basketball player and has always had the potential for greatness...but the mental aspect knocks him down, perception knocks him down, and the current status of the game with the asinine rule changes knock him down.

Alan

coach wrote:

And if athleticism is so important then there wouldn't be a place for 40 year olds in the NBA. There have been many. You don't see 40 year old football players and soccer players.

Your post was kinda OK until I got here. Stop with this age argument. You can be athletic and 40 at the same time. Not everyone has a huge decline when they are 40. The post you are replying to mentioned Lagat in track but you conveniently decided to ignore that. There have been plenty of 35-45 year old soccer players. I'm sure football has seen a few too.

Jordan was better. It's not very close. If you didn't watch MJ in his prime, you can't understand since there hasn't been a major athlete at his level since. (Nadal at the French open last decade is the best I can come up with.) Stats and size might favor LBJ, but both were easily good enough to lead a team to the finals. And MJ felt inevitable on the biggest stage in a way LBJ does not. During his prime, you were watching MJ in the playoffs in a close game thinking, 'how is he going to win this game?', not wondering if he'd come through. LBJ doesn't inspire that feeling in me. The Bulls seemed unbeatable in a 7 game series during their 6 titles because of MJ. We're about to watch a Finals where LBJ's team is not favored.

Go watch their 27-29 yo finals series (91-93 vs 12-14) if you have any doubts who you'd rather have on your team in a tied playoff game with 5 minutes left. It is those few minutes of play per season that separates them.

Against his contemporaries, MJ was unquestionably the best player in the league in his prime. Compare that to LBJ. He is the best right now and best player since MJ. But currently LBJ least has competition as the best player. Durant and Curry were legitimate MVP's. Wade was a better player for the Heat during some of the Finals. Barring injury Anthony Davis is going to be more valuable than LBJ very soon, and most likely he and a few others will be better players or on the same level by LBJ's 32 and 33 yo seasons (MJ was still far and away the best in the league at that age).

runningart2004 wrote:

2. Wade was the most important player on the Heat. Lebrick didn't carry anything but Wade's lunch. He left a crappy Cavs team because he couldn't get it done. MJ stayed in Chitown through the bad years until a team was built around him.

Alan

Oh snap! Welcome to the Jungle Mr. Rome. The thing that annoyed me about Lebron was his propensity to pout and disengage himself from the game. Especially his last year with Cleveland before jumping ship. There were times during their championship run where he passed off the ball instead of making a play in key stretches of a game. It's like he got tired of carrying the load and passed off the ball in frustration. Not the trait of the best, especially in a championship series.

kneedeep wrote:

It's like he got tired of carrying the load and passed off the ball in frustration. Not the trait of the best, especially in a championship series.

You are imposing this idea on him. Maybe he felt like the other players had better scoring opportunities than him in those moments. Now that is actually a trait of the best (team player) - don't be too proud or selfish to pass the ball.

jordan was better wrote:

Jordan was better. It's not very close. If you didn't watch MJ in his prime, you can't understand since there hasn't been a major athlete at his level since. ( Stats and size might favor LBJ, but both were easily good enough to lead a team to the finals. And MJ felt inevitable on the biggest stage in a way LBJ does not. During his prime, you were watching MJ in the playoffs in a close game thinking, 'how is he going to win this game?', not wondering if he'd come through. LBJ doesn't inspire that feeling in me. The Bulls seemed unbeatable in a 7 game series during their 6 titles because of MJ. We're about to watch a Finals where LBJ's team is not favored.

).

Hard to argue against your feelings.

But you would not have these same intensive feelings regarding Jordan if he played on the teams that Lebron has played on.