What is my ceiling?

like 7:30-7:45 on recovery days. just try and feel good, its shouldn't be a strungle.

For form look at videos of other runners. ( Craig Mottram, Rupp, Levins) everything is in line, they're standing tall, theres no unnecessary movement. Try to replicate what they're doing while being relaxed at possible.

also doing hills and drills helps out with establishing better form.

and listen to "you need more recovery"

While more recovery is likely a big part of it, you do not need to take a month or two off, that will work but once you start back you are too likely to just go back to your bad habits or create new bad habits with too much time on your hands.

All you have to do is run ALONE for those two months so you are less likely to race workout and/or recovery days. Recovery and normal days, 1 min per mile slower, all workouts only 1/2 as far so repeat 400s at 5k pace become repeat 200s at 5k pace and so on, long runs are not more than 2 miles further than your daily staple run. Add in proper recovery days and down weeks, double more often so your daily staple run distance decreases by a mile or so.

The goal is to just train enough so that you improve.

What level were you at initially? Sounds like you have a poor VO2 max.

None of the diet and water intake things are a key.

I was at a pretty low level of running before... I've always played ball sports but obviously the training for those is different. I just thought running would be a fun new challenge and then i fell in love with it. I've never had my v02max measured. I wouldn't even know what the numbers mean. How do i increase it? I'll begin trianing for xc soon

I was at a pretty low level of running before... I've always played ball sports but obviously the training for those is different. I just thought running would be a fun new challenge and then i fell in love with it. I've never had my v02max measured. I wouldn't even know what the numbers mean. How do i increase it? I'll begin trianing for xc soon

I was at a pretty low level of running before... I've always played ball sports but obviously the training for those is different. I just thought running would be a fun new challenge and then i fell in love with it. I've never had my v02max measured. I wouldn't even know what the numbers mean. How do i increase it? I'll begin trianing for xc soon

My 3k is 10:18

joe bag wrote:

like 7:30-7:45 on recovery days. just try and feel good, its shouldn't be a strungle.

For form look at videos of other runners. ( Craig Mottram, Rupp, Levins) everything is in line, they're standing tall, theres no unnecessary movement. Try to replicate what they're doing while being relaxed at possible.

also doing hills and drills helps out with establishing better form.

and listen to "you need more recovery"

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. :)

What do you mean i will create new habits or go back to old habits? I have this cross country season to train for so i don't think i should taje 2 months off.. My coach says8-12 days depending how i feel. I'll probably take12 just to be safe. Idk if i should be cutting all my workouts in half.... I'm more of a high mileage guy i think....

What do you mean i will create new habits or go back to old habits? I have this cross country season to train for so i don't think i should taje 2 months off.. My coach says8-12 days depending how i feel. I'll probably take12 just to be safe. Idk if i should be cutting all my workouts in half.... I'm more of a high mileage guy i think....

My slow jog start into a timed 100 was 12.91 last week

Wow thanks for posting. I kinda gave up competitive running to travel but I can still run 1018 for 3k. Props for posting when you are this slow. Seriously, though is your coach an advocate for high mileage or are you just busting your butt ? It very much sounds like the latter due to your earnesty in listening to other s and also your desperate cries for help.

But hope for the best. My philosophy is if you're skinny and have the right attitude your times will keep dropping regularly until you get a girlfriend. Btw, if you have a girlfriend right now send her a breakup text stat. Run a mile and see if you can get under 5.

As for my constructive advice I would say don't listen. To the idiots telling you to drop your mileage, your training for cross so just focus on steady miles and hilly runs. Only run trails. If you're comfortable at 65 then build up to 90 and eat and sleep more. Also get your iron checked. You could be perfectly healthy and just talentlessso just enjoy training hard and smart,or go get a muscle biopsy. . It's very easy to get your vo2 measured just go to your colleges exercise science department. Grad students always need test subjects. Keep in mind that sub 5 is pretty good but if you can't break 17 and your 3k pr is 1018 then it sounds like cannot pace.

I think i probably just bust my balls because i think and hope that high mileage will be the answer. I am able to run on a lot of trails and dort and golf courses so I'll do that. My iron is fine I'm sure. Last track season i might have been over trained. I thought about getting it checked but did not and this past xc season went alright

My .02: You are either overtrained or undernourished

If you can afford one, get a hrm. Do a series of hard 300s or run hard up a hill a few times. You should see a number that's within a few beats of your max. It'll be close enough. Take your hr first thing in the morning for a week. That's your resting heart rate (rhr). Subtract your rhr from your max. Multiply that number by .6. Add that number to your rhr. Do most of your running under that hr. For example, let's say that your max is 200 and your rhr is 50. The difference between the two is 150. Times .6 gives you 90. Add that to your rhr gives 140. 90% of your running should be between 130 and 140. You probably won't believe how slow that is at first. If you have time run 60-90 minutes or more per day at that effort. If you can do it, I'd recommend doing two 60 minute runs per day most days at that hr. Be consistent. Measure your pace/distance traveled. Over the next months, you'll see that distance increase. That means you're getting fitter and, ultimately, faster.

More later

I will do that soon. I'm on my break from running now but when i get back to it i will. What happens if i go faster or get my heart rate above the desired number?? What will keeeping my heart rate that low do???

I will do that soon. I'm on my break from running now but when i get back to it i will. What happens if i go faster or get my heart rate above the desired number?? What will keeeping my heart rate that low do???

You're going to build an aerobic base. Lydiard used the metaphor of a building. The taller the building, the deeper the base needs to be. As your lowest hr training improves, so will your performance in the other ranges - including at the top.

Something else is going to happen, too. Because you're not so beat up from your 'recovery' runs, you'll be able to do your quality work faster. Maybe much faster.

Deeper base, faster top end. After a few years of this, you'll have a much better idea of what your ceiling is. My guess? You are nowhere near it.

Oh, and to answer your question about going above the desired number? Don't. If it happens, slow down. You may have to walk sometimes - especially going up hills. That's OK. If you're consistent with this, that won't be true for long. And, actually, if these runs are super slow, that will be really good news. Aerobic base is the easiest thing to fix.

Check back in with me when you start running again. I'm happy to help you out.