Salazar, Farah, talk about use of L-carnitine, a legal supplement with 11% performance gains

Except the NOP didn't keep it quiet at all. Instead they told USADA what they planned to do before they ever took it. But who the eff cares? Legal supplement. Perhaps all of the NOP haters can do a grand walk off the track, hand in hand with the Brojos, in protest of the factless gossip they keep feeding each other. Just keep the outside lanes clear, as the NOP athletes will likely be taking a victory lap. i

Leirbag wrote:

I do love how every athlete will always say when outed, "I saw no performance gains so I stopped." Well, what if you did? Would you keep it quiet? I wonder how much they do take that they do find performance gains. And if it didn't work, why explore? What's going on with that mindset?

rekrunner wrote:

It's OK to explore what is legal.

L-carnitine isn't listed as legal by the WADA.

"Except the NOP didn't keep it quiet at all. Instead they told USADA what they planned to do before they ever took it."

AlSal also created an special altitude house long before he knew whether it was acceptable.

In 2002, the Oregon Project came under scrutiny from the United States Anti-Doping Agency, which formed a think tank to discuss the ethics of the high altitude house. The Agency's Senior Managing Director, Larry Bowers said, "The argument for altitude rooms is that they make up for those athletes that can't live high. What they don't take into account is that people living high don't get the benefits of training low." Alberto Salazar was confident the Anti-Doping Agency would ultimately approve the altitude house, saying that it's no different from other legal scientific advances like heart rate monitors and sports drinks.

You say that like you think it makes any sense.It is not prohibited, and doesn't belong in a class of prohibited substances.That's all athletes need to concern themselves with.I noted before, the IAAF didn't seem to have a problem discussing it in their 2007 (and 2013) Nutritional Guide for athletes, beyond general warnings that it might be a waste of money, or it could be contaminated with something really prohibited.Where can I find this list of legal supplements approved by WADA?

wreckedrunner wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

It's OK to explore what is legal.

L-carnitine isn't listed as legal by the WADA.

what it is wrote:

I also don't believe in the concept of so called 'performance enhancing drugs'

wtf is this supposed to mean?

"Where can I find this list of legal supplements approved by WADA?"

LOL, it doesn't exist. You claim it is legal. Where is your list?

I see this thread got bumped. Not sure if you all saw the second article that came out over the weekend that said NOP may have inadvertently broken doping rules by injecting l-carnitine prior to 2012. USADA apparently told them they could but injections weren't allowed until 2012. Most interesting to me is that Alberto thought the injections might help Dathan Ritzenhein 2-3 minutes in a marathon. See http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/03/sunday-times-says-alberto-salzars-group-may-have-inadvertently-broken-anti-doping-rules-with-l-carnitine-injections/Now I'll respond to a bunch of comments since I was last on this thread.

Alberto according to the Times had Dathan Ritzenhein fly to Houston to get an injection that he thought would help him improve 2-3 minutes in the marathon? And we're the ones hurting runners self belief by just reporting what others are saying on this issue?

If athletes weren't themselves obsessed with pills and supplements we wouldn't need to report on it.

I was trying to point out that saying "he's on thyroid" can be a loaded statement depending on who you are talking to.

As for Prozac and Predisnone I was trying to point out that Alberto's actions indicate you need a lot more than just traditional supplements to be the best. I was critical for him implying one thing and doing another.

Prednisone is a banned substance in competition but can be used out of competition so I woudn't say it can't help performance. It is banned in competition.

wtf?????? wrote:

what it is wrote:

I also don't believe in the concept of so called 'performance enhancing drugs'

wtf is this supposed to mean?

It means the group he believes in is pure.

wejo wrote:

Alberto according to the Times had Dathan Ritzenhein fly to Houston to get an injection that he thought would help him improve 2-3 minutes in the marathon? And we're the ones hurting runners self belief by just reporting what others are saying on this issue?

And who was it he went to see in Houston, it wouldn't be the "U.S. Track's Unconventional Physician?" would it?

No wonder people get suspicious and cynical, especially when you read the comments after the article.

Transparency wrote:

Pal, no one cares about your "hypothesis" re lactate and no one on LR, except you, considers it worthwhile. If you get a hard on from studying it, good luck to you

maybe 'what it is' is on lactate to deal with his lactate obsessive disorder

Lactate infusions in obsessive-compulsive disorder

Who cares if Salazar said it would help give his athlete 2-3 minutes? What, you don't think anyone who tried compression socks, spent weeks trainkng at altitude (like you did), drank beetroot juice, drank Gatorade or whatever LEGAL thing they did - wasn't trying to get a performance benefit along the same measure of improvement (or close to it) over 26 miles? Quit being such a hypocrtite, Wejo. Your witchhunt for the NOP is blinding your capacity to report the facts. You serve only the small minority of disgruntled bitter men like yourself that can't help but bring the successful to their knees - so they are at your level. Any reporter worth a salt would be asking why USADA gave the NOP misleading information. That's the story. Everything else is just going around and around about a legal supplement.

I also agree with the posters that claim you've used this message board to destroy the sport all for your financial gain. A kid must think it's impossible to win a medal or run fast time unless they cheat. If they do make it, all they have to look forward to is your website tearing them down to pieces. Well done.

It's time for you to shut this website down and start over. Make something good of yourself. Be a change for good.

Santana strums wrote: Quit being such a hypocrtite, Wejo. Your witchhunt for the NOP is blinding your capacity to report the facts. You serve only the small minority of disgruntled bitter men like yourself that can't help but bring the successful to their knees - so they are at your level. .

This is not a witch hunt. A dark cloud follows Alberto wherever he goes. There is no coach in history other than Alberto who has a revolving door for shady characters who are pitching dubious "supplements" and medical exemptions. From Victor Conte to Jeffrey Brown, Alberto knows them all. If a coach is doing nothing shady then he doesn't need to put a muzzle on his athletes about what they are doing.

Duke Law article reprise wrote:

This is not a witch hunt. A dark cloud follows Alberto wherever he goes.

It did as an athlete too.

Duke Law article reprise wrote:

Santana strums wrote: Quit being such a hypocrtite, Wejo. Your witchhunt for the NOP is blinding your capacity to report the facts. You serve only the small minority of disgruntled bitter men like yourself that can't help but bring the successful to their knees - so they are at your level. .

This is not a witch hunt. A dark cloud follows Alberto wherever he goes. There is no coach in history other than Alberto who has a revolving door for shady characters who are pitching dubious "supplements" and medical exemptions. From Victor Conte to Jeffrey Brown, Alberto knows them all. If a coach is doing nothing shady then he doesn't need to put a muzzle on his athletes about what they are doing.

Um... might want to tone down the hyperbole a bit. Or, if you really think there aren't other more shady coaches, learn something about the history of athletics.

Al Sal has so many skeletons in his closet he can no longer close it. Al Sal will be #1 shady-coach of all time once his closet completely bursts open.

There's an enormous body of evidence showing that in the lion's share of endeavors, much of what separates the very, very good from the great is cheating.

Santana strums wrote:

Who cares if Salazar said it would help give his athlete 2-3 minutes? What, you don't think anyone who tried compression socks, spent weeks trainkng at altitude (like you did), drank beetroot juice, drank Gatorade or whatever LEGAL thing they did - wasn't trying to get a performance benefit....

Now you're trying, and failing, to minimize how shady this latest NOP enterprise sounds. I hate to break it to you, but flying half-way across the country just to have a certain well-known slime-ball doctor inject you with an amino acid as part of a new protocol that is supposed to magically gain you 2-3 minutes in the marathon without any additional work on your part, is not the same thing as drinking Gatorade.

Eat, Sleep, Run, Inject wrote:

I hate to break it to you, but flying half-way across the country just to have a certain well-known slime-ball doctor inject you with an amino acid as part of a new protocol that is supposed to magically gain you 2-3 minutes in the marathon without any additional work on your part, is not the same thing as drinking Gatorade.

Well said my friend.

"I also agree with the posters that claim you've used this message board to destroy the sport all for your financial gain. A kid must think it's impossible to win a medal or run fast time unless they cheat. If they do make it, all they have to look forward to is your website tearing them down to pieces. Well done."

-This was very well stated. I would agree, as would others in the running community I'm involved in. Has been the topic of discussion on more than one long run.