Calling experts on track rules!!! Is this a DQ?

Notthornton wrote:

This first thing I thought when watching this race is why I am in favor of having enforcers in hockey. I'm a decent runner but past my prime. I weigh 170 pounds but could have been in this for at least for the first kilo,probably the mile. I would volunteer to take every Guelph guy out if they started hurting the other runners' fair chance at a race. If you want races like that, then you'll have guys like me putting these schmucks on the ground. I'll take the DQ no problem.

I love internet tough guys.

Chris Dulhanty, Aaron Hendrikx and Ross Proudfoot are all members of the Speed River Track Club, which has the same coaches that devised this strategy. They have no problem physically impeding their opponents - who are also trying to qualify on - at a conference championship, so feel free to physically impede them this outdoor season.

Mundus Vult wrote:

Mrr82 wrote:

Not normal in Europe at all. This was a horrible display and more than one guy probably should have been dq'd. if they could be suspended from future races they probably should be. No place for that.

No place for what? This is a qualifying round not a time trial. Have you ever considered that there is a reason we don't contest middle distance races in lane all the way? The reason is because the tactics help to make it interesting. The tactics require a runner to demonstrate a range of speeds.

If you want this to be a sport, then we need more of this not less. I am not suggesting that running become a free-for-all but that we allow for contact in our races and move on from this "he touched me and should be DQed" mentality.

You're a moron. The reason for no lane assignments in middle distance is because its simply unfeasible to have someone run in lane 8 for a mile, the stagger would be ridiculous. No one would have any idea how far behind or ahead they were in a race. The non-lane assignment isn't so we can just throw fists whenever we don't wanna get beat by someone who could blow the doors off the competition in the kick.

Wejo maybe you thought that was entertaining, but how would you feel if some group of dbags were doing that when you were en route to a low 28:00 10K or in a marathon?

If I were the Guelph coach I would be incredibly embarrassed. That was beyond pathetic. On the flip side, how did the other runners not lose their minds and just tackle those fools? I would have pulled down that blonde idiot and spiked him. I thought Canadians were tough, but that was some of the weakest running I've ever seen, both from Guelph and the rest of the field.

Need to break this down - looks like there are 3 possible discussion points:

1) Did the white dude (Dulhuntey, or whatever his name is) commit a foul?

I think this was obvious, as his arm-swing went wide, not only once, but twice (he actually tried to do the same thing on his own teammate at around 800m to go that they were trying to qualify, and then again on another athlete later in the race). Since he did it twice, it seems obvious that it was purposeful.

2) Was the team front running tactics against the rules? I don't see it being against the rules, but this is interpretation, to IAAF Rule 163.2:

"Any competing athlete who jostles or obstructs another athlete, so as to impede his progress, shall be liable to disqualification from that event. The Referee shall have the authority to order the race to be re-held excluding any disqualified athlete or, in the case of a preliminary round, to permit any athlete(s) seriously affected by jostling or obstruction (other than any disqualified athlete), to compete in a subsequent round of the event. Normally such an athlete should have completed the event with bona fide effort."

In Europe this rule is much more lose than in N. America, and perhaps a case could be made that more than Dulntey (sp?) did impede runners. I would assume there were appeals, and only Dulhnety was DQ'd (appropriately).

3) Was the team front running tactics against some unwritten spirit and ethics of sport (or University sport in Canada?)

I have no idea, but this could be an issue at play....

Proudfoot very clearly stepped into the path of Wilkie on multiple occasions, causing him to chop his steps in order to avoid a collision. If this were accidental, I wouldn't see the need for disqualification but, with Guelph flat-out admitting that that was their strategy, I don't see how he wasn't DQ'd. Hendrikx definitely impeded opposing runners as well. If keeping an eye on your competitors and stepping into their lanes as they're about to pass isn't considered impeding, I don't know what is... It's hard enough to pass people on a flat indoor track when the pace picks up at the end of a race. When a bunch of sub-8:00 guys form a line, forcing you into lane four, and jump into your path with elbows when you try to pass, you're not getting by unless you're a world-class talent.

Shameful display by Guelph!

Mundus Vult wrote:

How can you not watch this race and laugh and smile during the last 3 minutes?

If you were affiliated with the team of the runners who were impeded you might no think it was fun.

I don't understand why the other runners didn't push back or try harder to get around them though. Maybe Canadians are too polite? I can't imagine these tactics being successful in US collegiate racing.

i chose D2 wrote:

If you were affiliated with the team of the runners who were impeded you might no think it was fun.

I don't understand why the other runners didn't push back or try harder to get around them though. Maybe Canadians are too polite? I can't imagine these tactics being successful in US collegiate racing.

It is never fun to be on the losing side of things. But, I agree so completely with your second point that I will let the first one slide. The other runners should have fought back instead of throwing the middle finger (which was one of the most hilarious moments I have ever seen in a race).

I suppose in the end this was just entertainment and some of the purist on here want more than than to just be entertained.

i chose D2 wrote:

Mundus Vult wrote:

How can you not watch this race and laugh and smile during the last 3 minutes?

If you were affiliated with the team of the runners who were impeded you might no think it was fun.

I don't understand why the other runners didn't push back or try harder to get around them though. Maybe Canadians are too polite? I can't imagine these tactics being successful in US collegiate racing.

Yeah, us Canadians are a bit too polite at times, but I'd expect that to change towards the Guelph group; this isn't the first time they've been out of line during races, but this feels like a tipping point.

I was really close to attending U of Guelph, but their coaches attitudes just turned me off; there's a real lack of respect there towards other groups, though they hid it well during recruiting visits.

Ridiculous. That entire team should be DQ'ed.

prettysad wrote:

5:31:45. Clear DQ. Some pretty unethical stuff in addition but wouldn't be called in most races.

Guelph is a joke wrote:

Aaron Hendrikx and Ross Proudfoot deserve to be DQ'd for this without a DOUBT. This is DISGUSTING. Very disappointed in the character shown by these athletes.

Guelph= Clown college.

I would like to agree with Wejo. Best 3k I think I've ever seen. To clarify my point, distance running sucks to watch with the exception of waiting for the break. I was on the edge of my seat for this whole thing.

I have personally been a victim of this same tactic during a conference meet in the 1000m of the heptathlon. The athlete in first, during the first 100m of the race, literally told his teammates to get in to the outside lanes so that I couldn't. Made me feel good that I was apparently a threat. I made my move and just swung out into 4-5 and passed.

Distance runners and their fanboys need to grow some balls and take the advice given in one of the best Tom Cruise movies ever, Days of Thunder; Rubbing is Racing!

Pretty sure you're not supposed to move over to cut off a passing runner unless someone is pushing you over from that side. I don't know if that's an official rule or if it's just understood among decent people.

I don't know if this is a DQ or not, but it definitely doesn't paint a kind picture of Guelph.

To those saying if you don't like it, train faster, I would say the same to the Guelph runners; if you're not good enough to win, don't create human walls in order to achieve what you can't on training alone.

Gotta be a bittersweet win for the Guelph guys, you can't really be proud of winning a race like that, only ashamed.

To whomever said this was like the TdF, it's not. This would be like a domestique brake checking an opposing sprinter in the lead up to the finish so your own sprinter has a better chance. Not only does that not happen, but if it did the entire peleton in that race and every other race would remember and make things pretty rough for that team. If a team is good enough to get loads of guys up front and control the pace, that's great and probably would make for some exciting 5000s and 10000s. But if setting picks and hip checking is going to be the norm, this sport will have a lot less to do with being fast.

webby wrote:

If someone intentionally cuts you off . . . you're wearing spikes, use them.

I've raced the boards from 1963-1996 at the highest levels, If anyone raced like this in my day, they would not have crossed the finish line since it happened about 800m out and more than enough time to retaliate. In my day we could easily take the feet out from runners impeding us just by placing our foot in front of them before they planted their foot.....they go down and we go by. We didn't care if we got DQ'd, the code said they should not be allowed to finish for the tactics used in this race. The British and Europeans were wicked though, if you weren't prepared to hold your place or position you could get shuffled out the back. It took me awhile to learn how to avoid looking like an idiot.

Disgusting. The coach should be banned.

Ol Grumpus wrote:

Disgusting. The coach should be banned.

In relation to this, Steve Boyd, one of the opposing coaches whose athlete got screwed, over recently had this to say in response to an anonymous poster (probably a Guelph athlete):

"And you have the nerve to talk about respect among coaches!? Is this really the issue for you in all of this? If it is, you might be interested to hear that the Guelph coaches actually had the gall to lecture those of us who filed protests of that fiasco on Friday night about the etiquette of filing protests! Yes, the word etiquette was actually uttered by these two, and without a trace of irony. This was followed by declarations of their intention to file protests and counter-protests of their own! They said and did this all the while knowing that they had advised to their athletes to execute a risky and ethically dubious tactical strategy, and knowing that any bad behaviour on the part of other athletes (of which there was none of any consequence) was in reaction to the predictable consequences of their own race strategy. To them, this was "all in the game". In the end, they don't appear to respect any of us."

Sound familiar? DST and Chris Moulton = Alberto Salazar. I hope that potential recruits are reading this thread and understand the utter cynicism and contempt for the sport of the Guelph coaching staff and athletes.

Pretty disgusting display by Guelph.

For those people wondering why the other runners didn't fight back: they were in the middle of a race, trying to compete and not arm wrestle with a bunch of jerks.

I think what makes this even worse is that several of the Guelph guys doing the blocking were clearly much faster than their opponents. Extremely poor form and against the spirit of the sport.

Looked to me like the guy in the yellow jersey was walking over to confront the Guelph runners after he finished. Does anyone know if there was a confrontation after the race?

As previously stated, it happens in Europe all the time.