Robby Andrews leaves NJ/NY TC and Gags to return to Jason Vigilante

[quote]speed is over-rated wrote:

Rojo,

How do we know Andrews doesn't have the speed to compete world class at 800m? Symmonds appeared to be similar in ability and progressed to 1:42 over his career. Is 1:42 and silver not world class?

I would even argue andrews has better quarter speed then symmonds.

Good points

Symmonds has run 47.45 in the open 400. What is Robby's open PR?

I don't know if talent goes away or not, but talent neglected or talent not systematically developed (over a long period of time) definitely does not become fulfilled.

I suppose Andrews did/does have more "natural talent" than Symmonds -- he did at least run faster at a younger age. But Symmonds -- like him or not -- seems ideally suited mentally for being a pro in his event. Set long-term goals, stick with a program (setting,coach, etc), keep grinding out gradual improvement. Watching Symmonds race, I always had the impression that he was wringing out every bit of his potential in his races. In this respect, Andrews has so far demonstrated none of Symmonds' talent. One of the things that has "impressed" me observing Andrews as a pro, in addition to what has been observed above about his racing strategies, is that he just did not look prepared. He looked lost, and he just did not look as fit as everyone else he was lined up with.

Just an amateur's observations from a distance. I know there are many experts on here who are closer to all of this stuff.

I am pretty sure Andrews split 47 low on UVA 4 x 4 at ACC meet as a frosh or soph I forget which, I watched it live, just not sure which year.

Vig has bigger issues I would think? Princeton needs to be way better.You would think that would be the focus now.

In 2013 they were soft at XC Regions and this year as well

Wu Ming, those are really solid observations

and except for that 1 1000M race, Andrews was non competitive really in almost every Indoor mile effort and was not even sharp at 800 , he did get "back" to 1:45.xx I think, but that is not enough today to do much..

Right now I am not even sure he could beat McBride if he had to in an NCAA final, and that is saying something from where he was tracking 4 years ago..

Solid points all around

concenred NJ wrote:

Too big of a contract out of college and it seems to have been renewed.

No hunger, motivation, or pride.

NJ/NY was way to lax with only meeting a couple one or two times a week and Gags is too old to babysit this huge group (nor should he have to).

Needs a drill sergeant for a coach who is super organized for him.

I do not think his dad or Vig are the answer.

Rowlands?

He needs a training partner or group of athletes to train with, not just "supervision." I would like to see what type of non-running training he does. I doubt it compares to his biggest competition for the olympic team. Definitely fails to compare with centro or symmonds. His biggest upside is that his aerobic ability is poor compared to his very fast PRs. I doubt there are many people with his 8/1500 ability that have as much to be developed aerobically. That's another reason why a training group would help him a lot. Blasting 200s is easy to do alone, but those longer training sessions really improve a lot with others around you.

Andrews is an interesting runner who definitely has the tools to be a medal contender on the world stage at 1500m, but he has several serious hurdles to clear to make that happen:

1) He races like an IDIOT. In high school I was in his same conference and watched him sit in the back of the pack in major races and then would blow by everybody on the last lap. It was incredible, he was untouchable. Then in college he applied the same strategy and it started to work less, but he still got some major wins. Now finally at the pro level he has kept this same style of racing and it has been disastrous. Perfect example was the last lap of the last oly trials when he made a move too late and Wheating put him in his place.

2) I am concerned by the coaching changes, the best success is when somebody sticks with one coach, develops a long term plan, and executes it. (I.e. Rupp/Salazar) jumping from coach to coach doesn't seem to work (I.e webb). Like webb was, I'm sure Andrews is frustrated. He was the best and won most of his life and for the first time in his track career he isn't succeeding. This thinking leads to poor short view decisions (I.e I'm going back to my dad!). Who knows, it might work out like Peter and Seb Coe but I have my doubts.

Regardless, I wish Robby nothing but success and will be rooting for him to medal in 2016

switching coaches sure seems to have worked for simpson. i don't know how you can generalize and think that everyone should stick with his or her coach forever no matter how badly things are going.

From what I hear he needs to get away from his family and out of his comfort zone. It seems like his dad is too involved and while knowledgable for a father (he was his HS coach) he is not a professional coach. Too much input and undermining the real coaches training. He can't be in the nike training groups but he could run with the Brooks group in Seattle or Leo or something. He needs to say goodbye to NJ to save his career.

He is missing what Joe Vigil gave BM , strength and endurance base. All of this speed talk is nice , buts its not whats going to get you into finals after rounds or kicking off 1:44 , 3:34 race pace.

Leo and Andrews will end up with Vig sometime in the next year. Two stud athletes training together.

Why does everyone assume definitely get "strong enough" to compete with the worlds best but no one can ever get "fast enough" to do the same? I'd say in Andrew's case, he's more likely to put in the training required to run 1:43.00-1:43.50 then be able to do the work required to run 3:30-3:31.

workie wokie wrote:

switching coaches sure seems to have worked for simpson. i don't know how you can generalize and think that everyone should stick with his or her coach forever no matter how badly things are going.

Changing coaches has certainly worked for some, but I think the premise of the post you responded to holds true for many athletes. The old 'the grass is greener' somewhere else approach, when in reality the athlete's lifestyle is the source for their average or poor performances.

By the way, I'm not sure Simpson is the best example. Yeah, she had some success with Henner, but she went from a great coach to a good coach back to a great coach. She would have likely been better off never leaving Wetmore.

I just saw that Robby also re-upped with Adidas for three more years. I have to say I'm surprised they would offer him a 3 yr contract given he's produced so little the past couple years. Might be more marketable than most US runners but his social media following isn't within spitting distance of the Hall/Goucher/Shalane types.

Also worth noting is the Adidas re-sign was announced the same day Robby said he was going back to Vigilante. I wonder if that was a stipulation from Adidas or if that's simply Robby figuring he needs to produce results.

Well, I WAS optimistic.

But a 1:51.62 opener at Penn State yesterday?

How would he get by the 800 in 1:51 to even run a competitive 1000M?

This is a real lower tier type result , even for an opener. The race went in 1:48.xx , so there was an oppty to run fast, unless he won second heat easily?

I did not see heat # next to result.

Finals

1 Garn, Jesse SR Binghamton 1:48.57 10

2 Watkins, Za'Von JR Penn State 1:49.68 8

3 Makins, Jordan FR Penn State 1:50.03 6

4 Logue, Joey FR Penn State 1:50.71 5

5 Scheving, Tyler JR Buffalo 1:50.86 4

6 Andrews, Robby adidas X1:51.62

7 Meehan, Thomas FR Buffalo 1:52.48 3

8 Schulz, Eric FR Princeton 1:52.65 2

9 Charles, Anderson JR South Florida 1:52.79 1

Trialswatcher wrote:

Well, I WAS optimistic.

But a 1:51.62 opener at Penn State yesterday?

How would he get by the 800 in 1:51 to even run a competitive 1000M?

This is a real lower tier type result , even for an opener. The race went in 1:48.xx , so there was an oppty to run fast, unless he won second heat easily?

He WAS in the 4th heat (instead of 5th hot heat), and went out in about 57, coming back hard the second half to win the heat

Well, maybe not so bad then, I did mention that was a possibility.

Certainly not what he needs to practice, out in 57, he should certainly be working other things by now, right?

Like in a heat with zero risk, out in 52 at this time of year?

Trialswatcher wrote:

1:51.62 opener yesterday...

I'll give him a few more races, but I'm pretty close to passing on Robby at this point. I was always a fan and his presence makes races exciting, but this is just ridiculous.