Why dont distance runners use H.I.I.T

HIITson wrote:

I still wonder why distance runners don't use H.I.I.T considering the great results you get from it.

Have you done it?

Is 6 to 8 very hard 20-second intervals with 10-second rest periods a Tabata

workout?

What do you think happens when you run 8 times 20 seconds all out with 10

seconds rest? Show me a video of someone doing that?

If your 200 meter PR at 200 meters is 24 seconds as a distance runner,

what do you think will happen if you run 8 times 20 seconds all out with 10 seconds rest, if you could?

Maybe induce a peak in 2 weeks, and then it's all downhill.

yes i have done it the results are great

And they are few videos on YouTube of people doing Tabata by the last rep they are crawling

I mean real HIIT e.g sprint 30 seconds all out rest 30 seconds repeat x10

fred wrote:

HIITson wrote:

I still wonder why distance runners don't use H.I.I.T considering the great results you get from it.

Maybe induce a peak in 2 weeks, and then it's all downhill.

This is spot on. I mean there's no reason for it

You wonder because you don't know how distance runners train.Many popular training incorporate speed training and sprint training.In short, distance runners use HIIT already. They call it interval training.The best "proven" programs often cite variety as a key factor in success. You need many kinds of workouts that build endurance, stamina, speed, strength and form. HIIT doesn't do all of these things.

HIITson wrote:

I still wonder why distance runners don't use H.I.I.T considering the great results you get from it.

HIITson wrote:

why a -1/10?

You try way too hard.

fisky wrote:

the risk of injury in HIIT is higher for runners, who typically have muscle imbalances and flexibiity issues.

Yeah, right. Beginners have less risk of injury when sprinting than distance runners. Fantastic!

HIIT is "High intensity interval training" , there is a difference between interval training and high intensity interval training mile repeats at 10k pace is not HIIT aren't i right?

HIITson wrote:

the distance running community don't want to accept HIIT just because its sprinting

that's where you misunderstand. It's not sprinting. Sprinters don't do it either.

To sprint, you need fully charged anaerobic fuel and normal blood pH. Trying to sprint with short recoveries forces you to accelerate and transition on aerobic power, which, like it or not, is much, much weaker than anaerobic. HIIT works energy systems similarly to middle distance track workouts, but by applying them to inappropriate distances it is functionally worthless. Yes, you might improve your "cardio," but you won't be able to run fast.

Yes i know that sprinters dont use it they just have to sprint in one go

HIITson wrote:

I mean real HIIT e.g sprint 30 seconds all out rest 30 seconds repeat x10

That's ~exactly the workout my college track son does when he is home (200m in 30 sec then rest 30 sec x8). That's a middle-distance workout his coach has used for decades, but I guess he needs to rename it and call it HIIT. Sprinters might occasionally do it, but they typically do complete rest in between because they're working on speed not aerobic.

I give you 3/10. You are trying too hard, but I like the topic.

But those Hill Sprints are with full recovery.

But i am sure that's not your son's all out speed considering his running track in college

HIITson wrote:

HIIT is "High intensity interval training" , there is a difference between interval training and high intensity interval training mile repeats at 10k pace is not HIIT aren't i right?

No, you're wrong. In research, HIIT is a term used for any high-intensity interval training, with "high" usually meaning an effort at 90-100% VO2max or higher.

For example, 4 x 4min at 100% VO2max is a workout regarded as HIIT in sport science (this paper is a classic:

).

Also a workout consising of 3x20s all-out sprints with 2min recovery is a HIIT workout (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25365337)

So there are different ways of doing HIIT, Tabata sprints are just one version.

And the most important point: all serious runners do "HIIT" and has always done it, although it's not called that. (Of course all do not do Tabata sprints, because that kind of a workout is not useful for every distance or during every season, but there are usually better workouts for the specific distance they are training for.)

Knower of terminology wrote:

[quote]HIITson wrote:

For example, 4 x 4min at 100% VO2max is a workout regarded as HIIT in sport science (this paper is a classic:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17414804

).

That paper is definitely not a "classic". It's just yet another rip-off of Veronique Billat's paper from 1999 where she advocates 30s off/on at Vo2Max and then progressing to longer reps at VO2 max (up to 8 minutes).

Why dont distance runners don't use a training of HIIT, as Tabata and other versions of it tested in some science paper? Because both field experience and science has shown that it is not the best way to train for distance runners.

1) Research has shown that intervals just a bit above the lactate turnpoint (=2nd lactate threshold, or MLSS, or "anaerobic threshold", or "Respiratory Compensation Threshold, or 2nd ventilatory threshold, which are basically all located at the same speed and correspond to the same transition zone) is more efficient than High intensity (close to VO2Max intervals) to improve many endurance-related parameters with less long-term fatigue:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21812820

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23037620

2) Research has also shown that "80/20 training", i.e. a composition of training with ~80% of low intensity (below the first lactate/ventilatory threshold, or "aerobic threshold") and "only" ~20% of moderate to high intensity is better at improving endurance performances than a training containing a higher quantity of high intensity (HIT):

http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fphys.2014.00033/abstract

See also, for more details about "80/20 training" and account of all the recent scientific studies who have proved it at being the most efficient training distribution:

http://www.amazon.com/80-20-Running-Stronger-Training-ebook/dp/B00IIVFAEY

See also these good papers by Steve MAGNESS about HIIT, Tabata, Crossfit etc.:

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2012/01/crossfit-endurance-tabata-sprints-and.html

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2013/12/why-crossfit-worksbut-really-doesnt.html

But Tabata boost vo2 max and also anaerobic capacity which can be useful for races such as 800m 1500m and also during the last lap of any race.

Tabata boosts VO2 Max in UNTRAINED subjects. Almost ANYTHING will improve VO2 Max in untrained subjects.

HIIT is a term with many names and so shouldn't be used in a real discussion about training. ..be it running or otherwise. Its a pretty term that looks good in papers. That's it

HIIT is vague. Its interval training at high intensity. There is no specific formula other than it needs to be near max. 30/30s. The Oregon's 40/30. Even the time tested 6x400 and 10x400 are versions of HIIT.

HIIT is the Crossfit of the running world. Crossfit is just circuit training. HIIT is just intense interval training. Science likes to put things in little boxes. Its not a matter of what ONE type of training is best...that doesn't exist....correct training is a combination of protocols that best fits your specific situation at a specific moment to cause progressive adaptations to reach an end result.

Most of the time the best training is the one you are not doing.

Alan