Need help with two a day runs

Advice1 wrote:

Your tempo runs are too long/slow. You want your tempos to be 30 minutes max to get the full benefit from it. Being able to sustain it much longer than 30 minutes comfortably means that your are not increasing your aerobic capacity as much as you should be from tempos.

This is simply not true. There are huge benefits to be gained from tempos of all distances. The best way to do it is to mix it up. Shorter faster tempos some weeks, longer slower ones other weeks. That is helpful too because it keeps you from racing against yourself.

advice1? more like badadvice1. nothing wrong with 30min tempos if paced accordingly.

Final update:

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I've been keeping a steady volume of 75mpw since January with a peak of 87mpw. Limited to two workouts + 1 LR. Easy runs were by feel (sometimes at 8-9min pace).

Results:

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Set two Mile PRs (-10s, -4s) {during workouts, I'm not a miler}

Set two 5k PRs (-1min, -6s) {did not taper, not goal races}.

Set a HM PR (-11min+) {goal race}.

Fell ill twice (cold) since January. Not sure if it has anything to do with training as it was not during a peak mileage week. No serious injuries. Had slight metatarsal pain, but it went away after I got new trainers with more forefoot cushioning and switched non-workout runs to soft surfaces.

My season is basically over. How many easy weeks are recommended before starting the next base buildup phase? Should I attempt to push the peak mileage to 100+mpw?

Just wanted to share a success story regarding doubles and the consequences of increasing volume.

Thanks.

That's great! After a full training and racing block, especially after increasing mileage, I'd recommend 2+ weeks fully off from running. After that I think it would be a little too much to go from 70mpw to 100mpw. Why not try 80-85 next?

yay congrats wrote:

That's great! After a full training and racing block, especially after increasing mileage, I'd recommend 2+ weeks fully off from running. After that I think it would be a little too much to go from 70mpw to 100mpw. Why not try 80-85 next?

Thank you. I do plan on taking a couple of weeks off with some light jogging and relaxing in the pool. The 100mpw peak will be a gradual buildup which I plan to hit some time in late August. It is not set in stone. If I don't feel good during the buildup, I'm going to back off and scrap the idea entirely and go back to 70-80mpw.

So you dropped your half marathon PR from 1:24 to 1:13? If so, that is really good! And your 5k PR from 18:44 down to 17:38? Even if those were not goal races, pretty crazy that your half marathon pace is faster than that 5k! So I would say to work on the speed ... maybe not jumping to over 100 mpw right away, but you clearly respond to mileage well, and even if you focus on faster stuff, probably maintain the mileage you worked up to.

runthecountry wrote:

[quote]

So you dropped your half marathon PR from 1:24 to 1:13? If so, that is really good! And your 5k PR from 18:44 down to 17:38? Even if those were not goal races, pretty crazy that your half marathon pace is faster than that 5k! So I would say to work on the speed ... maybe not jumping to over 100 mpw right away, but you clearly respond to mileage well, and even if you focus on faster stuff, probably maintain the mileage you worked up to.

Sorry, I cut paste (lazy) and it should read SB (season best) HM not PR. Dropped PR from 1:24 to 1:20+ and SB was by 11min. As you correctly pointed out having a HM pace faster than 5k is simply impossible (for me). As for speed, when I do track work, I just don't have the turnover and it seems like I am stuck at a pathetic 36/200 even when I try to throw it in after an easy run. Maybe I am too old (36+)?

Recovering Jogger wrote:

Hi guys,

I need some help planning a double-up routine.

A quick bio:

I am basically an upper 30's jogger getting more serious about running. I don't have any HS or college running background and I'm self trained. I started running about 4 years ago. These are my PR's (all set this year):

5K: 18:44, 10k: 37:48, HM: 1:24:26.

I can handle a volume of 55mpw easily and would like to go a bit higher (say 65mpw). My main interest is to improve my HM (1:20 by next year) and 5k times (17:30 by next year).

Questions:

1. How should I double? Every day? 4 times a week? Hard+easy efforts? Long+short runs? 2x medium distance runs?

2. What should I run my tempos at? (Currently doing 6mi at 6:30 pace).

I realize that this is an elite forum, any help would be appreciated... :)

Thanks!

[1]

Start by adding one double. Add it in as easy + easy effort. Once you start to adapt to that. Add another double maybe 2-3 days later. Again easy + easy.

Once you adapt to those, you can start to use doubles to complement regular runs so either easy + workout later. I like that personally. Helps to "shake it out" prior to the faster workout.

Or you can do a "mileage double" which is more like regular run + regular run. Each at least 45 minutes and up to an hour. These serve as good base/fat burning runs and you can use them as such during your base or marathon training.

[2]

Do your tempos at your half marathon pace or 1% faster, which is about 5 seconds for a 5:30 paced half marathoner, and make them at least 4 miles.

Doubling is great. I double when I feel like it. I'm my best when I'm doubling. Having said that, it doesn't always work well for a lot of people. It can become an easy excuse to skip workouts because you become so used to just putting in another easy run. Certainly do not overtrain by adding them and still doing your normal load, but don't let arbitrary mileage totals be the reason you feel too tired to do a workout or become the reason you start skipping strides regularly.

My personal success with doubling has more to do with available sleep, good diet, and favorable schedule than it has to do with anything else. If you improve sleep, diet, and schedule to accommodate the doubles, then they won't bog you down. If you try to do them without serious attention to sleep especially, then you will suffer.

I double 2-3 days per week - I just run 3-4 miles in the morning, 6 at night. I do around 50 mpw.

I am definitely more tired when I double - so I start very slowly on runs, and try to get a full night's sleep.

But I think it helps my racing a large amount.