It's ironic that Paula talks about lifetime bans, but she was 3 minutes faster than massive doper Shobukhova?

2:15 Paula's WR it's, at this point, unreachable. Not in the next 15 years if you ask me.

Defar, Dibaba's, Florence Kiplagat, Mary Keitany...all of them have a ceiling, 2:17.

Now tell me WHY EVERY ATHLETE that attempted Paula's WR pace, fell miserably after 30k? You can't argue EVERY RACE about "not ideal wheather condition" "not ideal pacesetting", etc.

For example: One cannot argue that El G's 3:26 is untouchable. Lagat was on that level, Morceli, Asbel Kiprop, even Jim Ryun! (In Ventolin's calculations)

The same El G had -for many people- a 3:24.high in his bag,

But 2:15 is out of the reach, even in perfect conditions, with ideal pacesetting.

Why Ma's athletes did not run 2:15:25? or at least sub 2:18? They were atrociously doped at the time, but even with that aid, failed MISERABLY on that matter.

Wouldn't it be funny if Paula didn't know she was doped?She swears up and down she was clean and I believe her. But I'm sure EPO can be administered without the athlete knowing, can't it?

pr100 wrote:

Hayduke wrote:

I have no proof, but if Paula is clean, then Lance is clean.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Lance has admitted to doping.

And prior to his admission there was plenty of circumstantial evidence pointing towards his doping.

In Paula's case we don't have any of that. We just have some really good times.

It's worth bearing in mind that her 2:15 was probably, in part, due to very fortuitous conditions on the day.

Breathe in breathe out wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

The 1st 2 concentrated on championships

Tergat ran 2:05:48 the year before in London. So the year later he gets tailed off in race which Ventolin would believe is a couple of mins faster for the women. It put them on nearly 2:10 pace!

Tergat then ran 2:04:55 the same year in Berlin The time of the men's race does not indicate ideal conditions

Tergat finished 4th to relative nobodies, clearly not a good example to use. It was still one of the deepest finish times ever.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

The mens course record for London is 1:30 down on the world record,

Kipsang ran the London course record into a net headwind, I wouldn't be surprised if he could run his Berlin PB at London if the conditions were favorable.

I don't know what point you are trying to make mine is that the London course is not that fast.

London is not run in anywheren near a staight line it loops round there was a negligible advantage from the wind

Berlin is consistently faster by at least a minute

Ben L Wrong wrote:

Why Ma's athletes did not run 2:15:25? or at least sub 2:18? They were atrociously doped at the time, but even with that aid, failed MISERABLY on that matter.

LOL, okay now you've outed yourself as a troll. I give you a 9/10 for the thread. Hardly original but you got some good replies.

I ran London 2003 too wrote:Ventolin you don't know what you are talking about

err..

i've watched every race since '81 or whenever it started

You have no idea what the conditions were

nonsense

there were constant mentions of weather as they do every year

And she didn't run behind the pacemakers, she ran next to them.

rubbish

she ran huge amounts of race behind them

something you woudn't have know if not watching feed

i watched the women's only feed from start

But did he test posi? wrote:

Wouldn't it be funny if Paula didn't know she was doped?

She swears up and down she was clean and I believe her. But I'm sure EPO can be administered without the athlete knowing, can't it?

She knows she doped, and it's not funny at all.

utterly clueless

regardless of winds of upto 9m/s behind you, a pacer directly ahead of you drafting at potential 5.2m/s, makes an overall wind-aid of

14.2 m/s

which you use mureika's calculator scaled down to 100m for a "basic" then scaled back up to 42195m to give you an idea of potential gain

yes

but it was behind her for significant part of race

fool

she wouda got some vector of wind behind her upto max of 9m/s but always a helpful upto 5.2m/s from the pacers

more nonsense

splits don't lie

she had huge last 10k & was already on wr pace before

that indicates some huge wind advantage

as mentioned later, loop courses offer better wind considerations, especially a straight out'n'back, but that is not going to happen for scenic purposes

bottom line :

pacers offering upto 5.2m/s all way round & wind upto 9m/s

clueless

most of wind was helping her in race & much less of it was into a wind slowing her

& that wind into her face woud been hugely blocked by those 2 kenyans running in front of her to shield her

utter nonsense

it's only past few years pacers have been asked to go to 30k

back in '03, it was standard just to go to 1/2-way

if it had been a womens-only race in '03, paula wouda only got help to 13.1 miles by women & had to run last 13.1 miles solo

rubbish

not in '03

khannoochi set wr in london back in '02

london was considered as fast as any course back then

only in past 1/2-decade has berlin being trying to find faster & flatter roads to up stakes & still, it never has quality of field of london where competition kills off clockings in last 1/2 as it becomes much more tactical than berlin

fool

you clearly have no clue

that was a completely tactical affair with 5 guys in contention in last mile

drafting to only 1/2 way in this race & no one took it up from there despite whatever helping wind

Hey Ya wrote:

I don't think Paula was a cheat. She was a wealthy woman who could afford altitude getaways, tents, and more physio than any other known person. That's all legal.

She was smart and tough and built up to the marathon in a perfect way...a world junior XC champ, an excellent 10K runner who just lacked a kick.

She had a high pain threshold. The last NYC marathon she ran, finishing a close third., was virtually on one leg. She was crippled after it.

Despite everything people say about East Africans, she was the one with the perfect youthful upcoming, temperament, and toughness to be a great marathoner.

Wealthy? Before her world record?

She beat all the Russian dopers in the big $$$$$ marathons in the 2000s

There's only 2 ways that happens

Either she was doped

Or dope doesn't work well at marathon distance for women

And that's speaking from experience here

yes

& it was a "championship" race in '03 with abera/baldini/tergat

none of who made slightest of moves in race until end & killed clocking

he had khannochi forcing the pace so had to follow

there was no peak-khannoochi in '03 race

fool

he cracked in last 1 mile of race

he was unpredictable back then at 34y ole, coming upto 35y

when relaxed in no-feild except korir who was the pacer dragging him to the wire !!!

fool

weather reports don't lie

conditions were perfect for fast running

if the men were too scared to run flat-out from gun in such a high class field, it is no surprise

in huge quality races past ~ 15y which are invariably tactical from 30k when pacers drop out

it's not same as berlin where they normally invite no more than 2 elite men

rubbish

i watched women only feed from gun-to-tape

she had huge amounts of drafting from those 2 kenyans, often directly ahead

rubbish

not with theoretical

+14.9 m/s

wind from 9 + 5.2, helping at points

she was worth

~ 29'45

that day if paced to 1/2 way + even splits + good weather

that -> for a track M

2"16'37

& as no M course is perfectly-flat unlike a track, in a 0-wind berlin paced to 1/2-way, i'd expect

~ 2"17-flat/low

as long as male-pacers from gun-to-tape are banned, this will remain case

true

but that only shows how much advantage paula had in '03 race

err...

what part of

"male pacers gun-to-tape"

you not comprehend ???

if she'd been paced only to 1/2 -way, the indicated time in absence of any of the known huge wind conderations is on it's own

~ 2"17'19

easily

bernie couda broken it zurich-'04 & noah likely if he'd run a 1500 in rieti instead of 1k

Ryun a quantum leap above all these lighweights including above

i'd have to go with more like

3'25-flat/low

i watched every fast race of his live on satellite & rieti-'02 was his gunning for 3'24-high

didn't get much help & left out alone 500 out & 2'44.75 at 1200 !!!

it was mis-managed race with 3'26.8 time

i do think 3'25-flat/low is fair value for him in rieti-'02 which he tends to indicate as his peak

err...

"ideal"

include paced from gun-to-tape by coupla kenyans + wind of upto 9m/s ???

not sure M was their aim

you can always claim wind/downhill for M

they were aiming for track golds in '03

they weren't even aiming for wrs, as pacing for 1500 & 10k were utter nonsense

i still have little doubt wang wouda whupped paula over a M if running at her peak over M in '03

ventolin^3 = doper apologist

ukathleticscoach wrote:I don't know what point you are trying to make

usual incomprehension

mine is that the London course is not that fast

rubbish

wrs on in past

huge efforts to avoid/pave over cobbles, etc

London is not run in anywheren near a staight line

no course is

it loops round

that is a minimal slowing/speeding

there was a negligible advantage from the wind

drivel

weather report showed huge wind for race

it's obvious she nailed most of it from splits/final time

Berlin is consistently faster by at least a minute

only because last of past decade they wanted only 1 or 2 elites for a tt

in geb's years, it was only him + stiffs

it was shocking to see when they finally got a "live" guy in makau how he shockingly had to zig-zag away in last miles to stop this limpet, geb, trying to draft everything out of makau

disgraceful from geb

makau was telling him to fuuck off & he woudn't until makau just kicked away

Is it possible that she's blessed with some genetic ability with the added advantage of being tall, not carrying much weight when running and an ability/desire to train hard?

As far as I can recall she has a aunt or some other relative who swam for GB in the Olympics. Perhaps she has an inherited, genetic, aerobic ability? Combine that with a huge work ethic, low weight to height ratio, and spending a huge amount of time training at altitude and you end up with a world class marathoner.

At the age of 15 she was already beating some of the best of up-and-coming UK talent and was documented to be running less than 30 miles a week. Perhaps her improvements have come more from better training, combined with leg span getting longer (i.e. she became taller) without adding any extra weight.?

Race Radio: "The British star is the one that many had hoped. Not going to name names but she has been very outspoken against EPO. She has a very interesting excuse. She was pregnant......which is odd as normally pregnancy lowers Hct.

Some of the numbers on the list are insane. Off scores for a man of 167, a woman of 170. That is freaking insane."

http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=798.180

@TheRaceRadio: "Question for @paulajradcliffe. Is your name on the IAAF's ‘Suspicion Red’ list? If yes why?"

https://twitter.com/TheRaceRadio/status/544239048722624513

thraxx: " I have it on very good authority that it is Doug Mountjoy."

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,45607.msg2417320.html#msg2417320

Ben L Wrong wrote:

2:15 Paula's WR it's, at this point, unreachable. Not in the next 15 years if you ask me.

Defar, Dibaba's, Florence Kiplagat, Mary Keitany...all of them have a ceiling, 2:17.

Now tell me WHY EVERY ATHLETE that attempted Paula's WR pace, fell miserably after 30k? You can't argue EVERY RACE about "not ideal wheather condition" "not ideal pacesetting", etc.

For example: One cannot argue that El G's 3:26 is untouchable. Lagat was on that level, Morceli, Asbel Kiprop, even Jim Ryun! (In Ventolin's calculations)

The same El G had -for many people- a 3:24.high in his bag,

But 2:15 is out of the reach, even in perfect conditions, with ideal pacesetting.

Why Ma's athletes did not run 2:15:25? or at least sub 2:18? They were atrociously doped at the time, but even with that aid, failed MISERABLY on that matter.

3:26 isn't untouchable. Asbel Kiprop is 1.72 seconds off. All he needs is the right race, with pacers an to run half a second a lap faster. Silas Kiplagat is 1.64 seconds off. Both their pr's were run within the past 2 years. El G's record will fall.

Compare Boston to London:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Boston_Marathon#mediaviewer/File:Boston_Marathon_route.png

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/marathon/route-of-the-london-marathon

While you were say on your on watching tv I was in London that day watching the race and it was not windy anyway!

World records have been set in competitive races and the WR you mentioned is soft that's why it has been improved so much in recent years

Thinking that you will not be slowed on a windy day, just because you are running behind someone shows you have never run. You get a benefit drafting but the wind is still there slowing you down

You were watching the feed? So you have no idea what the conditions were in the race do you?

Moron, idiot., imbecile etc.