My new Cholesterol readings. I don't want to take statins!

Ha Ha. You just told someone to eat soy and grains. What a fool. You have no credibility.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

agip wrote:

this thread has freaked me out . I have probably been using the 'if the furnace is hot enough...' argument too much

I've already given up 2 egg breakfasts, a pint of ice cream and one muffin.

I have no idea where I'm going to get the calories now tho.

I need high calorie food - I run a lot.

If your blood #"s are fine, no need to "freak out". Calories that won't raise LDL/total C ? Easy:

Fruit, veggies, whole grains like oatmeal, soy, nuts, seeds, fish. In fact, many of those will LOWER LDL.

oxidized LDL is the enemy. Sat Fats are fine for you, and higher Cholesterol levels have proven to be safe.

There is no such thing as 'good vs bad' cholesterol. It is the metabolic processes that are taking place due to diet, that are creating this fallacy.

Dump the grains, and eat meat, fat, veggies, and occasional fruits.

get used to it.. wrote:

glad to see you don't approve of the study design of a study published in the Annuls of Internal Medicine. Does your arrogance know no end?

Why are you stating stuff about weightloss and things being low fat. This is an issue where carbohydrates can affect ldl. That is it. You can't cover up your idiocy with a bunch of non related rhetoric. You can try, buy it will not work. You are a fraud.

It doesn't seem like you have any clue what you're talking about. Your comments are mostly insults, and you can't seem to respond saliently to any points. If you can't be bothered to argue at a higher level than a 14 year old debating Pokemon at lunch, maybe just stop?

Duane wrote:

Today my blood work came back.

Total Cholesterol 340

Triglycerides 193

HDL 62

LDL 239

risk ratio LDL/HDL 3.86

I know my cholesterol is through the roof, but is my risk ratio okay?

Duane, I have not read through this entire thread, nor do I plan to. I will give you my take, though I am obviously a sample of one. High cholesterol runs in my family. Mine was over 300 at one point. I was told by my cardiologist that I could eat nothing but lettuce and I wouldn't lower it much, hence the push for statins at the ripe old age of 37 or so.

What I did instead was a week long cleanse on Ultraclear Plus to detox, then introduced certain foods back one at a time, starting with fish and vegetables during week one, then other meats and some low-glycemic fruits, then nuts & legumes, etc. My main starches became sweet potatoes and brown rice. I gave up gluten and cow dairy as well. Lastly, I did some kind of test for food allergies, might have been the Alcat, and eliminated the bad ones. I followed this plan rigorously as I got used to it after 90 days. I also supplemented w/inositol hexaniacinate, though there are other supplements that help.

For the first time in my life, I had reduced my cholesterol below 200 (yes, over a 100-pt drop). My LDL/HDL ratio also normalized. My cardiologist was shocked. I did not exercise either, other than some light walking, as I was and am limited there because of another disability that causes low cardiac output. So, in my experience of one, it can be done if you are committed.

While I agree that the size of LDL particle matters, my current doctor who specializes in my affirmity thinks that blood pressure is a much bigger player. In his 30 years of experience, his patient cohort has almost universally had high cholesterol but low blood pressure, and he has seen only one case of CVD owing to blocked arteries. He thinks extreme oxidative stress, like high mileage running, nicks the arteries along with other issues, setting one up for possible CVD later in life.

Lastly, he is not a fan of statins and thinks the cholesterol/CVD association is merely that, a correlation not a causation based on his reading of the literature and clinical experience. But there are plenty of studies that refute this view. Statins may help if you can't get there with lifestyle changes, though there is scant evidence that they reduce all-cause mortality and may even be linked to other causes of death.

Your LDL is really quite high. Try the diet/exercise/supplement route first, add statins if you have to. My $0.02.

High cholesterol has never been shown to cause heart disease. I'd read some of this guy's stuff.

http://www.spacedoc.com/

get used to it.. wrote:

glad to see you don't approve of the study design of a study published in the Annuls of Internal Medicine. Does your arrogance know no end?

I pointed out a few minor flaws . No study is perfect. I said the flaws could cut both ways in favor of or against either diet. This is "arrogant"? Ooh okay.

"Why are you stating stuff about weightloss and things being low fat. This is an issue where carbohydrates can affect ldl. That is it. You can't cover up your idiocy with a bunch of non related rhetoric. You can try, buy it will not work. You are a fraud."

1) you constantly say low carb is much better for weight loss than low fat. You presented a long term study that certainly did not show that. And weight loss has a positive effect on cholesterol. Right?

2) you say the issue here is carbs effect on LDL? What did your study show.?Better LDL reduction on the high carb than the low carb diet. This is also contrary to your opinion.

"Non related rhetoric"?? wtf?

You are truly insane.

Fat Boy wrote:

High cholesterol has never been shown to cause heart disease. I'd read some of this guy's stuff.

http://www.spacedoc.com/

Oh boy, the low carb cult is out in force (or at least under multiple personalities) today!

agip wrote:

this thread has freaked me out . I have probably been using the 'if the furnace is hot enough...' argument too much

I've already given up 2 egg breakfasts, a pint of ice cream and one muffin.

I have no idea where I'm going to get the calories now tho.

I need high calorie food - I run a lot.

You don't need to give up the eggs agip. That whole notion is a myth. I still eat plenty of them. Your body and brain need some cholesterol, which is why I personally skew away from statins. You need proper fats and in the right ratios.

get used to it.. wrote:

Don't worry about your cholesterol levels. Worry about inflammation

Don't worry about your cholesterol no matter how high? Who has Zero "credibility"? Mainstream experts could not disagree with you more. And yes , inflammation matters too, however, LDL is a CAUSE of inflammation itself.

Lastly Duane, I forgot to mention that the cardiologist had me get the scan done to check for calcification in the arteries because I had high cholesterol and chest pain, but I registered a calcium score of zero. While I had been a runner in a former life, though not for very long, my blood pressure was 88/59. Very low.

Sagarin wrote:

You don't need to give up the eggs agip. That whole notion is a myth. I still eat plenty of them. Your body and brain need some cholesterol, which is why I personally skew away from statins. You need proper fats and in the right ratios.[/quote]

while eggs in moderation can be healthy, and they have lots of nutrition and are actually not high in sat fat and do have more Pufas, they are high in cholesterol, and some hyper responders might raise their total and LDL via high egg consumption. Someone with blood cholesterol concerns should not eat eggs excessively. Ones body produces enough cholesterol on its own and one certainly does not need cholesterol from the diet as the longevity of many vegan groups has proven. Statins actually prove that extremely low blood C levels are very healthy and result in much Lower CVD risk than higher or even "normal" levels for most people.

That's funny.... but sad too.

I would try a lifestyle change first, then drugs. Beside lowering his cholesterol he may reap additional health benefits from the change.

Duane wrote:

Today my blood work came back.

Total Cholesterol 340

Triglycerides 193

HDL 62

LDL 239

risk ratio LDL/HDL 3.86

I know my cholesterol is through the roof, but is my risk ratio okay?

Those are bad numbers. By itself the 239 (and the ratio is gives) is not bad PROVIDED you have low triglycerides. In that case the cholesterol in your blood is large particle size and does not attach to the walls of your arteries.. You can have very high LDL for years but if you also have low triglycerides and if they do a nuclear stress test on you, they will find zero blockage in your arteries. Many people, especially runners are in this situation and are unnecessarily put on statins.

However you do have high triglycerides which means the cholesterol is low particle size and is plating out on your arteries so you need to take immediate action, first start will strict diet and if that fails then go on statins.

However all you runners out there who have high LDL and high HDL (which is good) and low triglycerides, do NOT go on statins, you don't need them.

No my comments are not mostly insults. I have provided information. I am trying to get the few who might think T-rexing knows anything about nutrition to see that in fact, he is a fraud.

Still you.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

get used to it.. wrote:

Don't worry about your cholesterol levels. Worry about inflammation

Don't worry about your cholesterol no matter how high? Who has Zero "credibility"? Mainstream experts could not disagree with you more. And yes , inflammation matters too, however, LDL is a CAUSE of inflammation itself.

try putting flax meal on everything, drown your vegetables in olive oil, keep the unfiltered coffee to just a couple of times a week.

also, get a TSH test. an under active thyroid causes cholesterol to skyrocket.

get used to it.. wrote:

No my comments are not mostly insults. I have provided information. I am trying to get the few who might think T-rexing knows anything about nutrition to see that in fact, he is a fraud.

I can't believe you are going back and forth with T-Rexing. Just do a search and look at his posts on multiple of topics and you will quickly conclude he has a child's brain trapped in a man's body. Get a life and stop going back and forth with this child. I completely ignore anything he posts on any subject and you should too. Life is too short to waste on LTs.

Most of the posts here are not helpful and for the most part trolling.

As to Duane's question - his LDL is way too high - he runs a lot and I think stated his diet was reasonable - as a disclaimer of not knowing him or his med history, he likely has familial hypercholesterolemia (type II). It probably wont react favorably much more to dietary interventions in his case unless perhaps he became a vegan. Statins have been shown to reduce carotid intimal thickness in children with FH and are generally advocated for primary prevention of cardiac disease in pt's with LDL>190. Another option is a newly approved drug, kynamro, which is indicated for this problem. Also there are drugs called PCKS9 inhibitors which are in clinical trials (Duane could find a trial site potentially) and show great promise.

If Duane is actually trolling, I give him a supremely high score.

get used to it.. wrote:

. I am trying to get the few who might think T-rexing knows anything about nutrition to see that in fact, he is a fraud.

"Trying" and failing miserably.

You claim I am in line with old evidence from the 80s, however what do the absolute latest health guidelines from nearly all major health organizations say? That high LDL and total cholesterol are major risk factors for CVD. For example

"That's from oct 2014, American Heart Association

Major Risk factors for CHD-

High Blood Cholesterol: As LDL rises, so does risk of coronary heart disease."

But what does anonymous ultra-buffoon "get used to " have to say about that? He says- PAY NO ATTENTION TO YOUR CHOLESTEROL #s, THEY ARE MEANINGLESS!

Thanks for revealing yourself to be an ignoramus of an extraordinary level.